# Think of EVE as a pyramid scheme **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 22, 2019, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271 "2019-07-22T09:15:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Michelle\_Vega](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michelle_vega/32/387037_2.png) [@Michelle\_Vega](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michelle_Vega)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 9:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/1 "2019-07-22T09:15:41Z")
A lot of complaining going on lately. In the beginning a lot of us aquired the collectible ships, the T2 BPOs and of course superior benefits to control the markets. Over a decade later, people who naturally are at the bottom of the pyramid have no way of becoming filthy rich with a massive steady income and tons of expendable ships. This probably makes new players frustrated as all they are left wirh is PVP with other likeminded players and small market orders. Highsec doesnt really cater for real PVP, PVE, good missions, industry or powerful corporations. The “big guns” probably havent visited highsec in over a decade and live happily in nulsec. The only alternative to get somewhat “up to speed” are skill injectors or selling PLEX and finally joining a huge alliances or simply moving to a WH. I know if I started EVE today, I would complain too, as it wouldnt seem fair that all I could achieve is peanuts compared to what I achieved by being here early enough to get the upper hand with my yummy stuffs. I feel you all. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/2 "2019-07-22T09:18:35Z")
Speaking of “yummy” stuff, the salt and complaints are pretty “yummy”. There are plenty of ways for players to get “filthy rich”, but most of them ask that either (1) you grow a backbone, or (2) swallow your overly inflated sense of pride. A lot of carebears refuse to do either of these. ---
**Author:** ![Janus\_Gregorian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/janus_gregorian/32/144827_2.png) [@Janus\_Gregorian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Janus_Gregorian)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 9:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/3 "2019-07-22T09:21:49Z")
I never had a T2 BPO, I never controlled any markets. I don’t grind in Null. Never had any issues. Not when t2 mods and ships were hilariously expensive, especially compared to today’s income, not in between and certainly not now. It’s now, more than ever, super easy to get isk. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 9:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/4 "2019-07-22T09:31:17Z")
> [@Michelle\_Vega](#): > > I feel you all. Keep your paws to yourself. That’s harrassment. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/5 "2019-07-22T12:47:59Z")
> [@Michelle\_Vega](#): > > The “big guns” probably havent visited highsec in over a decade and live happily in nulsec. > > The only alternative to get somewhat “up to speed” are skill injectors or selling PLEX and finally joining a huge alliances or simply moving to a WH. I agree with most of the post. I would add that it’s not super hard to find ways to make a fair bit of ISK in a reasonable time frame (say 3 months or so, for a new player). By ‘fair bit’ I’m estimating 5-20 billion ISK, which would be plenty for anyone who just needs to fund ‘new-intermediate player’ type activities while they continue to grow their resources. The problem is that, braggart trolls aside, it’s not a case of “grow a backbone or swallow your pride”. To succeed as a new player in the current bloated state of EVE, competing directly against people with more SP, ISK, game knowledge and connections than you will ever have - is an uphill battle all the way. It takes reading up on external websites, doing your own research, testing various things in game, having a relatively good grasp of things like market mechanics, finding a decent niche (exploration, market trading, anomalies, whatever) that you can exploit without being overwhelmed by direct competition. While these are all things we look for in a good EVE player, it’s a lot to ask of random new players starting out. Who quickly get the impression that they are being left in the dust by everyone ahead of them. It reduces the new player flow into EVE from “a niche audience” to “a fraction of a niche of a niche” - those who would like EVE, who can get past the uninspiring NPE, and who have the patience and skills to slowly build up resources and get competitive. All while being held to a snails pace by the SP training system. Some fools will tell you “It’s not EVE, it’s the new players, they just need to grow a spine”. Well, I can point you at 8 years of declining player base and declining player satisfaction with the game, if you like. It’s not the players. It’s EVE. It’s poor game design, and not matching the game fundamentals to the target audience. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/6 "2019-07-22T13:14:15Z")
Surely you’re not suggesting that the wealthy are at an advantage in a dystopian, capitalist spaceship game? That would be preposterous. ---
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/7 "2019-07-22T13:17:54Z")
> [@Michelle\_Vega](#): > > Highsec doesnt really cater for real PVP, PVE, good missions, industry or powerful corporations. I’m doing a lot of PVE, awesome missions and nice industry in high sec. Anyone can do too. > [@Michelle\_Vega](#): > > I know if I started EVE today, I would complain too, as it wouldnt seem fair that all I could achieve is peanuts compared to what I achieved by being here early enough to get the upper hand with my yummy stuffs. When I entered the game in 2006 I imagined I was not be able to compete with people from 2004 [or the beta testers from 2003] either and instead of whining I won by attrition. Most of them left because they got bored, burned out, posted about unfairness. In short, I will outlive you too even if I am on the bottom of every profession ingame. I will win, because of my attitude. How about you give me your stuff, or even better, give it to new players and stop feeling bad for others. There is no shame in winning. Do I have a lot of ISK? No. Do I have the best killboard? No. Do I have a clue about how most of the game work? No. But unlike you, I have fun. I feel extremely sorry for how you feel. PS. : What has been added is waht is in almost every game to maximise profit : [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/f/a/4facf98ad53ba01eaa78668ebe4b8753f4b90b0b.jpeg "CEO Keynote On Tricking Players Into Mass Spending Highlights Deplorable Truth of Microtransactions") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ywdh1on_HU) ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/8 "2019-07-22T13:37:29Z")
It took me 6 months to gain 12b when I returned to eve after biomassing all my accounts do a meltdown caused by incarna it took me less than three years of investing that to turn it into more than 350b. What the hell are you talking about. I had no friends or connections when I returned. I spent most of my time In HS running a new player alliance. Only advantage I had was a decent high school economics class and low morals. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/9 "2019-07-22T13:54:17Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > Only advantage I had was a decent high school economics class and low morals They want to nerf you for being morally impure. I mean, its ok for them, not for people who oppose them. ---
**Author:** ![Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugh_crow-slave/32/441552_2.png) [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugh_Crow-Slave)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/10 "2019-07-22T14:01:42Z")
Wow, eve really is like real life ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/11 "2019-07-22T14:10:51Z")
Trudat ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/12 "2019-07-22T14:45:50Z")
Moral impurity? Bring forth the Inquisitor. Innocence means nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/13 "2019-07-22T14:57:41Z")
Thirst is everything Drink Sprite ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/14 "2019-07-22T15:04:12Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Drink Sprite Does it have electrolytes? Plants crave electrolytes. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Terona](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darth_terona/32/150217_2.png) [@Darth\_Terona](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darth_Terona)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/15 "2019-07-22T15:14:33Z")
Speak for yourself. In my walk of Eve life, joebane has surpassed me In every way. Because he has more drive than I do. Dispite our in game age differences. ---
**Author:** ![Yonna\_Leczarovitz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yonna_leczarovitz/32/218320_2.png) [@Yonna\_Leczarovitz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yonna_Leczarovitz)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/16 "2019-07-22T15:29:37Z")
Censured ---
**Author:** ![Mortlake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mortlake/32/510240_2.png) [@Mortlake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mortlake)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/17 "2019-07-22T15:42:55Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > That’s harrassment. Only if I didn’t ask for it. ---
**Author:** ![Mortlake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mortlake/32/510240_2.png) [@Mortlake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mortlake)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/18 "2019-07-22T15:44:40Z")
> [@Lugh\_Crow-Slave](#): > > Wow, eve really is like real life I was there. I wasn’t, but I was, if you know what I mean. ![Screenshot_20190722_164416](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/0/9/094d4e0baafcdff025d89a9327d2a33f54b5861c.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/19 "2019-07-22T15:47:17Z")
You asked for it when you walked in here wearing _that_, sug. ---
**Author:** ![Mortlake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mortlake/32/510240_2.png) [@Mortlake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mortlake)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271/20 "2019-07-22T15:48:09Z")
My hictor brings all the pods to the yard. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/think-of-eve-as-a-pyramid-scheme/177271.md?page=2)