# Time to do away with SP penalty T3 cruisers **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [August 15, 2020, 8:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488 "2020-08-15T20:15:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/21 "2020-08-16T08:48:04Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > But the odds of that are so low, that I’d estimate that two consecutive lightning strikes have a higher chance of happening. So you’re saying there’s a higher than 0 chance? That means your previous statement is wrong! Careful with those absolutes. 😉 [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/5/35074329a9979016dedf8f80f8967cfda1ad06a9.jpeg "Lightning Strikes Slow Motion | Four Consecutive Bolts") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLYoU74fxis) ---
**Author:** ![Vals\_Loeder](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vals_loeder/32/192416_2.png) [@Vals\_Loeder](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vals_Loeder)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 9:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/22 "2020-08-16T09:12:38Z")
> [@Tak\_Goden](#): > > CCP it is time to end the ridiculous SP loss penalty on T3 cruisers. No, it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Brun\_Warbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brun_warbear/32/380353_2.png) [@Brun\_Warbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brun_Warbear)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/23 "2020-08-16T10:03:46Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Anyway, my argument was not _‘just inject the SP’_ . My argument is that I’d rather have T3Cs be worth the SP loss. They used to be. It was a problem. They got nerfed. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/24 "2020-08-16T10:21:45Z")
> [@Brun\_Warbear](#): > > They used to be. It was a problem. They got nerfed. I know that, but I would like to see T3Cs to be a powerful ship choice worth the heavy drawback, rather than removing the drawback to making all ship losses equal. I also understand that ship balancing is tough, but I would like to see T3Cs as equally powerful as alternatives in combat, worth the extra drawback because of the flexibility of the ship. If you think that T3Cs aren’t equally powerful as the alternatives in combat, then I would like to see T3Cs buffed, rather than the SP loss removed. If you think that T3Cs are equally powerful as the alternatives in combat, but do not think the flexibility is worth the SP loss, I don’t agree. ---
**Author:** ![Ishmael\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ishmael_ronuken/32/209150_2.png) [@Ishmael\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ishmael_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/25 "2020-08-16T10:28:47Z")
I’m gonna toss in an agreement here. Mainly because imho the only thing that really gives t3c an edge is the modular nature and heat mechanics. The main reason most t3c have monster moments is because of blingfits. It feels silly to keep them at this level of massive loss after they’ve been dethroned. The whole drawing point to t3c is adaptability, jack of all trades sort of ship. It does everything…just not as good as the other t2 options. This gives unique advantages and disadvantages. It’s time to stop the SP punishment just because someone wants versatility over specialization. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/26 "2020-08-16T11:22:22Z")
Signed. Surprised it’s still a thing. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 11:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/27 "2020-08-16T11:36:22Z")
Whenever you lose a pod you should lose all skillpoints and have to start over. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 11:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/28 "2020-08-16T11:40:21Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Whenever you lose a pod you should lose all skillpoints and have to start over. You mean, play as if we’re not capsuleers but _regular_ people? Would make EVE incredibly boring when nobody dares take a fight. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/29 "2020-08-16T11:41:09Z")
All the alphas throwing spears at the guy who dropped $300 for the machine gun ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 11:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/30 "2020-08-16T11:43:25Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Whenever you lose a pod you should lose all skillpoints and have to start over. EVE hardcore mode, I like it. Maybe allow skill points to “drop” from pod kills so that the skill point economy still exists, and everyone isn’t forced to use minimum-skill frigates in perpetuity. Of course, we can also have a hardcore+ mode (with prestige), in which if you die in-game, CCP Seagull shows up to your house, silently smokes a cigarette for a few minutes, then puts it out on your face before shooting you execution-style with a silenced pistol. ---
**Author:** ![Serene\_Repose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/serene_repose/32/384960_2.png) [@Serene\_Repose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Serene_Repose)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/31 "2020-08-16T16:26:28Z")
Always a “pleasure” to see your input…the pair of you. ---
**Author:** ![Felix\_Isimazu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/felix_isimazu/32/387885_2.png) [@Felix\_Isimazu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Felix_Isimazu)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/32 "2020-08-16T18:22:20Z")
(big brain time: SP siphon module that sucks SP from another player and deposits it to you as unallocated SP) 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Zhilia\_Mann](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhilia_mann/32/214674_2.png) [@Zhilia\_Mann](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhilia_Mann)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/33 "2020-08-16T19:12:07Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > No one is going to pay an extra _billion_ ISK (one large injector and two small ones), _on top of the ship’s replacement cost_ , in order to get one more level of one subsystem skill trained instantly. I’m sitting on almost 3 million unallocated and I still take the, what, three days to retrain instead of waste that resource. I can’t even imagine _paying_ for that SP. That said, I can see both sides of this argument. On the one hand T3Cs no longer need an arbitrary drawback. They’ve been kicked in the teeth and while they’re still flyable, they aren’t overwhelmingly great. But on the other hand, making them powerful enough to justify risking the SP wouldn’t be a bad thing. It wouldn’t take a massive boost that invalidates flying other ships to make them worthwhile again, just a nudge here and there. Maybe drop sig back down and then tweak some of the subsystem bonuses. Hell, if you really want to emphasize SP loss, add secondary bonuses on each subsystem from a different subsystem skill. Add something to offensive subsystems that reduces weapon fitting cost based on core subsystem skills. Or add a signature radius reduction to defensive subsystems based on propulsion subsystem skills. That would make SP loss worthwhile _and_ encourage players to recoup that SP as fast as possible. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/34 "2020-08-16T19:35:03Z")
I stopped using T3’s even before the nerf. (I called it the “Swiss cheese nerf”) I found that a hac was almost as good and cheaper. No way would I even bother to fit up one now. ---
**Author:** ![Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/forum_posting_alt/32/254303_2.png) [@Forum\_Posting\_Alt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Forum_Posting_Alt)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/35 "2020-08-16T20:29:26Z")
Just saying: > [@Remove T3C SP loss, add SP loss for being Podded](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remove-t3c-sp-loss-add-sp-loss-for-being-podded/245549/26): > > Thanks. It has been a good year. I finally found an outlet for some of my less agreeable personality traits. I no longer feel the need to troll friends and coworkers - I can just log on here and watch people go nuts. slight_smile [![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/8/e/8eb6d63d2773abb406b15b2a9e73f755d886cf94.png)](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-red-dot-thread/248109) Ban the Dots! ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/36 "2020-08-16T21:05:49Z")
Honestly i wouldnt mind the getting rid of SP loss… The rest of the drivel though… LMAO I have a tengu fit that i use on occasion that has 64k EHP, with the lowest shield resist being 77%, just a hair over 800 m/s, and 1076 DPS at a range of 36km…and the damn thing has shown to be no more than 425million for the past 18 months. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/37 "2020-08-16T21:06:49Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > On one hand, I think it’s interesting to have a special advanced ship line with harsher penalties for losing the ship than regular ships. I don’t. You just end up with a ship that is blatantly overpowered and not fun to fight against (because if it isn’t overpowered nobody will use it), “balanced” by the penalty of a 3-5 day cooldown every time you lose one. The balancing drawback isn’t part of combat so it doesn’t help ship vs. ship balance, and it takes an incredibly frustrating form that discourages people from using it at all and promotes boring risk-averse behavior. That kind of endgame content is fine in a PvE game where the NPCs don’t care how overpowered your character is, it isn’t appropriate at all in a PvP game like EVE. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/38 "2020-08-16T21:34:59Z")
It wasn’t the sp lose that stopped me from flying them, it was the cost. A few days training for this toon doesn’t matter. But like I said, a hac is such a close 2nd to me that I went with that at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/39 "2020-08-16T21:35:01Z")
Good argument with some well thought out points. ---
**Author:** ![Cade\_Windstalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cade_windstalker/32/221037_2.png) [@Cade\_Windstalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cade_Windstalker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2020, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488/40 "2020-08-16T23:48:59Z")
> [@Brun\_Warbear](#): > > Ship power should be balanced against cost IMO. I mean, this was originally why the SP loss was placed on the hulls in the first place. CCP was experimenting with alternative “costs” for losing the ship, since ISK and minerals were starting to become fairly trivial for large alliances. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Not entirely sure about this… > > In some cases, stuff that is total crap is still expensive simply due to the difficulty inherent in acquisition. I would say that cost probably _shouldn’t_ be the driving factor for power. That logic leads to the “ISK-tanking” arguments that the bears use against ganking, et cetera. > > I would instead say that the cost of items should be balanced _to some degree_ against how long they take to train for, which is already the case, _but only kind of_ . That said, I agree with destiny here. This is, at best, a loose rule. For example a Kronos hull costs 1.2b ISK, but outside of a few niche scenarios it’s mediocre at PvP and the Rattlesnake, which is less than half the cost, is an equal or better PvE boat in most cases as well. It has it’s uses, but at the very least cost is not scaling particularly linearly with performance here. I think the key point to make here, if indeed OP’s point is correct, is to look at what else you can get for the same ISK cost at present and how that compares to the T3Cs, while trying to make the comparisons as realistic as possible. Basically for PvP and PvE look at the T3C and ships that both perform the same role and cost about the same and fit into similar niches (like site running) and make the argument that the T3Cs have better options. Note that “this is almost as good but cheaper” is kinda “working as intended” here. ISK cost goes up exponentially for linear increases in performance and that’s 100% by design. (I’d love to do the math here, but I don’t have time and I’m out of tune with what T3Cs are actually being used for post-nerfs) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-do-away-with-sp-penalty-t3-cruisers/260488.md?page=3)