# To Citizens and Capsuleers of Caldari State in regard to Protests caused by Pirate Subversion **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Tags:** caldari\ **Created:** [April 28, 2021, 8:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228 "2021-04-28T08:32:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/41 "2021-04-29T15:24:33Z")
Presumably they stop paying the Guristas protection money, and start paying whichever pirates who move in to fill the void. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/42 "2021-04-29T15:28:10Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > Are you actually stupid or being insulting by thinking anyone would buy that line? I mean you’re trying to sell me some ■■■■ that the Mega corps are somehow perfect and incapble of no wrong doing. > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > You are _pirates_, not rebels. It was more of a broader statement for any group that’s opposed to the main goverment. Speaking beyond just the Caldari state here. We can get into technicalities if you want. > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > You are actually disgusting. Are you _ **seriously** _ comparing counter-piracy to _ **genocide?** _ As i mentioned above > [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > It goes further than that. Am I mad that State loyalists feel the need to remove Guristas elements from their space? Nah i do the same thing In Venal. it’s expected. But in my time of helping promote the region I get people - And this i anecdotal - clamoring the the cleansing of venal and the eradication of the Guristas entirely. And being someone that knows what’s out here, there’s more than just holdouts of pirate vessels. they’re are colonies, famlies and workers even. No different than the State. What happens to all of these people? > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Presumably they stop paying the Guristas protection money, and start paying whichever pirates who move in to fill the void. These colonies and families I’m referring to are mostly Guristas. Colonies put up by them to house their own families because Guristas aren’t any less human than the ones found in “Civilied” society. They don’t necessarily pay protection fees, they’re protected by the Guristas for being the families of their own people. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/43 "2021-04-29T15:29:53Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > Colonies put up by them to house their own families Citation needed, pirates are generally of military age without family commitments. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/44 "2021-04-29T15:31:08Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > I mean you’re trying to sell me some ■■■■ that the Mega corps are somehow perfect and incapble of no wrong doing. Not doing yourself any favors if that was supposed to be a defense of your intelligence. To deny that Lai Dai all of the sudden wants to kill off its own workforce for no reason is not any claim of infallibility. > [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > These colonies and families I’m referring to are mostly Guristas. Colonies put up by them to house their own families because Guristas aren’t any less human than the ones found in “Civilied” society. They don’t necessarily pay protection fees, they’re protected by the Guristas for being the families of their own people. Those guilty of crimes will be brought before the tribunal and pay for them. The rest will remain unharmed. This isn’t hard. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/45 "2021-04-29T15:34:21Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Citation needed, pirates are generally of military age without family commitments. If you come down to venal (without any caveat of a massive armed forces - bodyguards are fine - or some hidden explosive) I can see about giving you a tour of some of these places. And while some of them started families, many of them have brought families over from whatever nation they defected from. > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > Lai Dai all of the sudden wants to kill off its own workforce for no reason is not any claim of infallibility. To ensure their authority and order. > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > Those guilty of crimes will be brought before the tribunal and pay for them. The rest will remain unharmed. This isn’t hard. You know damn well that’s not going to happen… They’ll find any excuse to see them all as criminals and punish them as such. More so when majority of these colonies are pitching in resource wise to the Guristas and therefore are technically aiding a criminal element. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/46 "2021-04-29T15:35:22Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > technically aiding a criminal element Actually aiding, there’s no need to invent technicalities. > [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > many of them have brought families over from whatever nation they defected from Anyone who thought going to the Guristas to raise a family was a good idea… was as divorced from reality as you are. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/47 "2021-04-29T15:36:58Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > To ensure their authority and order. Ah yes, authority over corpses. Surely that will restore operations… > [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > You know damn well that’s not going to happen… They’ll find any excuse to see them all as criminals and punish them as such. More so when majority of these colonies are pitching in resource wise to the Guristas and therefore are technically aiding a criminal element. I am not seeing any compelling arguments here. If you aid a criminal, you, yourself, as a lesser criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/48 "2021-04-29T15:37:52Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > Ah yes, authority over corpses. Surely that will restore operations… It certainly sends a message to those left alive about what happens if you step out of line. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Actually aiding, there’s no need to invent technicalities. > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > I am not seeing any compelling arguments here. If you aid a criminal, you, yourself, as a lesser criminal. So anyone born into these colonies that picks up a hoe to plow fields is gonna be treated and tried as a criminal? ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/49 "2021-04-29T15:39:15Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > picks up a hoe to plow fields Where are we now? Pre-Reclamation Ves-Udor? ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/50 "2021-04-29T15:39:54Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > It certainly sends a message to those left alive about what happens if you step out of line. A message that they are clearly saying is fake and, according to you, trying to hide? Pick a narrative. > [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > So anyone born into these colonies that picks up a hoe to plow fields is gonna be treated and tried as a criminal? If they supplied known pirates, yes, as is appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/51 "2021-04-29T15:45:56Z")
Fine - They handled the maintenance to the drone that does the plowing or even handled the controls behind it. Whatever updated farming method works for you. You know what I’m getting at here… > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > A message that they are clearly saying is fake and, according to you, trying to hide? Pick a narrative. Well if its clearly fake then Lai Dai should really show where it’s fake and drop that evidence right? > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > If they supplied known pirates, yes, as is appropriate. Precisely why I can’t take the State’s justice system seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/52 "2021-04-29T15:46:00Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > Clearly they’re not so honorable as the people of the state has been led to believe > > But que “Anything a Pirate says is fake and lies and only the government is capable of telling the truth and incapable of doing wrong because they’re more legitimate than the Guristas” And they’re not honorable exactly why? Because a primitive pirate said so? Cmon… Speaking about word of Caldari Megacorporation against word of a pirate, I guess in this case we could look more deeply at the exact pirate who are saying these words to see whom actually shall we believe. Ladies and gentlemen, I proudly present you the: Avio Yaken. He failed as Caldari, failed as a mercenary, even failed as Gallente. And, really, gallente are known for accepting all the waste from the Universe, and still… here we have Avio Yaken, who have no other place to run except the lowest bottom of our cluster: the Gurista pirates. Avio has a reputation of a liar, of a dishonorable person and traitor. He betrayed not just Caldari, but even his direct employers, acting with utter dishonor towards corporations that were his home. Taking his word into consideration is quite unwise, whether he would put his words against Honorable Megacorporation, or an unknown entity, his words simply have no credibility whatsoever. Maybe not everything you say is a complete lie, after all, that would be just absurd. It’s not just about legitimacy. Your words simply bear neither weight nor credibility. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/53 "2021-04-29T15:47:10Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > He failed as Caldari An outdated label, yes > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > failed as a mercenary, Yes actually, I found out Im a way better merchant and industralist > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > even failed as Gallente I do regret what happened with Sanxing at times… > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > except the lowest bottom of our cluster: the Gurista pirates. Bottom of the cluster yet I feel happier than I ever been. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/54 "2021-04-29T15:47:29Z")
That might be the most balanced and reasonable post you ever made… progress is within reach for everyone it seems. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/55 "2021-04-29T15:49:42Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > Well if its clearly fake then Lai Dai should really show where it’s fake and drop that evidence right? Don’t try to deflect this by parroting the same idiocy that has been reasonably ignored every other time you wrote it. You claim Lai Dai intended to send a message and scare the surviving workers into obedience. Lai Dai claims these events never happened, Please explain how you reconcile these two things in your head. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_Shasta](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duke_shasta/32/495942_2.png) [@Duke\_Shasta](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duke_Shasta)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/56 "2021-04-29T15:51:50Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > And they’re not honorable exactly why? Because a primitive pirate said so? Cmon… Primitive? Oh, come on. Look at the equipment that the Guristas possess. It’s better than the stuff that your navy uses. So if the Guristas are primitive, doesn’t that mean the Navy is even more primitive? > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Speaking about word of Caldari Megacorporation against word of a pirate, I guess in this case we could look more deeply at the exact pirate who are saying these words to see whom actually shall we believe. It is the word of a megacorp against a video. I’ll believe what my eyes see, not what a megacorp representative says while reading from a prepared statement. You want me to believe that this whole affair is BS, give me some solid proof. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/57 "2021-04-29T15:52:47Z")
> [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > You claim Lai Dai intended to send a message and scare the surviving workers into obedience. Yes > [@Remilia\_Malitia](#): > > Lai Dai claims these events never happened, Of course they would… Why wouldn’t they deny this? It makes them look horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/58 "2021-04-29T15:53:50Z")
> [@Avio\_Yaken](#): > > Why wouldn’t they deny this? Because according to you it was a message to instill fear and obedience, suppressing your own message is… dubious at best. ---
**Author:** ![Remilia\_Malitia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remilia_malitia/32/394766_2.png) [@Remilia\_Malitia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remilia_Malitia)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/59 "2021-04-29T15:54:08Z")
These… these are directly contradictory. A terror campaign only works if people hear of it. ---
**Author:** ![Avio\_Yaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avio_yaken/32/494184_2.png) [@Avio\_Yaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avio_Yaken)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2021, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228/60 "2021-04-29T15:55:43Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Because according to you it was a message to instill fear and obedience, suppressing your own message is… dubious at best. Fair point But this doesn’t need to get out of the territories that is’ relevant. If they did this, It was intended to be kept an internal matter. They’re denying it because it’s being brought to the wider stage and now they got the scrutiny of others down on them [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-citizens-and-capsuleers-of-caldari-state-in-regard-to-protests-caused-by-pirate-subversion/308228.md?page=4)