# To end The War **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [September 2, 2017, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511 "2017-09-02T15:58:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jehoshaphat_ambraelle/32/513430_2.png) [@Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jehoshaphat_Ambraelle)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 7:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/546 "2017-11-14T07:38:27Z")
At least I tried! ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/547 "2017-11-14T13:04:08Z")
> [@Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](#): > > Kim, this is definately an extincion - level weapon. Well, I might not be physician, mathematician, but I am a soldier, and I will speak as a soldier. Besides, from all the people around here I have had a first-hand experience and “felt” doomsday on my skin - I’ve lost a carrier to it. Doomsdays are alpha weapons for destroying capital ships, not for planetary bombardment or “obliteration”. But as any weapon, it has its own rate of fire. And, knowing it’s estimated damage, we can estimate amount of damage it does per second, and it will be about 5 000 conventional units. What can cause about 5 000 damage per second? Technically about 5 battleships, for example, abaddons (with 1 000 damage per second each). And, since doomsday’s rate of fire is once per five minutes, to equalize damage dealt, we need to shoot five abaddons for five minutes. Now tell me, can five abaddons in five minutes obliterate a planet? 🤣 But in any way, disregarding what your answer on this question will be, in the end… _ **it’s not really that important** _. Because to obliterate a planet you don’t need to “doomsday” it. Just send a fleet of 1000-2000 battleships or 100-200 dreadnoughts and start carpet bombing until it is wiped clean. Dreads can nicely glass whole cities, but they have weakness - they have to be stationary, so obliterating planet with them will be difficult practically. “One huge gun” is a thing to scare civvies. And “one superweapon” is highly unreliable tactics, so leave it to gallente holoreels. When you really need to destroy something, you send huge fleet and carpet bomb them into oblivion. It may look not as scary as “one freaking big gun” at first, but the destruction they will bring will be times larger. But after all, even _ **that is not really what is important** _. After all, we are speaking about _ **how to end the war** _, and destroying planets for that is totally not required. Most of populations of the planets are civvies. And even if not civvies, even if they have enormous mechanized armies there, if you simply deny access them to space, they will be unable to do anything to you, because we now have interstellar empires, and however developed planet can be, if all their stuff will stay on that planet, they won’t affect us in any way. And here comes an elegant conclusion: _ **To destroy the Federation as an Interstellar Empire it is enough to wipe out its presence from interplanetary space.** _ Because after all, we are not after their planets, not after their people or their riches. We are here to stop them from invading our space and killing our people. D. Kim, Strike Commander, State Protectorate, CMC, Caldari State ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/548 "2017-11-14T13:43:24Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Doomsdays are alpha weapons for destroying capital ships, not for planetary bombardment or “obliteration”. But as any weapon, it has its own rate of fire. And, knowing it’s estimated damage, we can estimate amount of damage it does per second, and it will be about 5 000 conventional units. What can cause about 5 000 damage per second? Technically about 5 battleships, for example, abaddons (with 1 000 damage per second each). And, since doomsday’s rate of fire is once per five minutes, to equalize damage dealt, we need to shoot five abaddons for five minutes. You know perfectly well that the damage from a Doomsday is not spread out across 5 minutes, stop being deliberately obtuse. It is a single, immensely powerful shot that takes place in 15-20 seconds or so and takes the rest of the time to recharge. I don’t know why you’re still arguing this when there [exists a previous example](https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/planet-wide-explosion-strikes-reschard-v/?_ga=1.175351074.1267934737.1413253271) of a Titan activating its Doomsday into a planetary atmosphere. A _less powerful_ Doomsday than the Oblivion. Tibus Heth’s order to activate the Oblivion, had it been carried out, is the single greatest act of treachery any Caldari has ever performed. He tried to kill your Home. Accept it. He is not a hero, he is a monster. Your blind dedication to him, and denial of his actions, is an affront to all Caldari who have ever died in the name of Caldari Prime. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/549 "2017-11-14T14:44:55Z")
You know, who are the real monsters? It’s the trolls, who jump into the discussion and dare to demand an author to accept some sort of random, logically incorrect, insulting and absolutely irrelevant to the original topic crap. D. Kim, Strike Commander, State Protectorate, CMC, Caldari State ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/550 "2017-11-14T14:48:47Z")
What exactly was the original topic? Jingoistic, self-masturbatory propaganda? ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/551 "2017-11-14T15:17:36Z")
What exactly was that last comment? Inanely myopic and childish attempt at insulting without even attempt of understanding the message? ---
**Author:** ![Kalaratiri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kalaratiri/32/477189_2.png) [@Kalaratiri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kalaratiri)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/552 "2017-11-14T15:31:45Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > For nine years already the State protects the Black Rise from continuous Gallente invasion and occupation attempts. But every day our citizens still suffer from gallentes. The rules of the civilized world fall by the wayside on the battlefield, just look at these infamous Gallente hidden prisons in Black rise, where they torture PoWs with inhuman methods, their death squads, that genocide colonists, and so on and so on. Our people only suffer, and only war profeteers and weapon manufacturers win in this situation. > > While we can stop the gallente invaders at our gates, we can’t stop them from attacking us, and while they do this, Caldari will suffer. While the war goes on, the lives are lost with each moment wasted. And if this war is pretty “young” compared to the First Caldari -Gallente war, that lasted for dozens of years, it is our duty to put a stop to this. > > Winning at ALL COSTS - that’s the only thing that matters. > > If we will glass Villore’s government districts, blow apart President’s station in Ladistier, annihilate FedNavy HQ in Algogille - billions will die. And this is terrible. But way more has died already because of Gallente agression, and significantly more will die, if we let this War to last as long as the First war. > > Caldari! Fellow citizens! Brothers and sisters in arms! We are not Matars, and we will sacrifice a lot to prevent ourselves from being subjigated to others will. We have already lost our home, now twice. And yet we are still here, not enslaved, not subjugated, standing tall with weapons in hands against unending hordes of gallente bullies. > > To stop the war, we shall advance. We shall defeat the Ancient enemy and render them physically unable to send any more murderers in the State territory! In the memory of everyone, who has died, and for the sake of all of those, who are being tortured by gallente the moment we speak - the Federation must be destroyed! > > They are large, but they are soft and weak. Our citizens are all trained soldiers, and their - they are just cattle. If we decapitate this snake, this behemoth, it will fall limp and shatter apart. Without its head they won’t train more of their cattle into brainwashed democracy fanatics and freedom zealots, whom they send to murder honest working people of the State. > > They have already violated rules, they disregarded the treaties. Then why shall we hold? Let us strike into them, disregarding rules, disregarding unfair restrictions that they don’t respect themselves. Our time has come, time to pierce this behemoth’s belly with thousands of our shining swords of justice! Let our ships blot out their suns! > > ONLY THE VICTORY matters! And we will pay any price! For while we hesitate, more people die. > > Destroy the Federation. > > End the War. > > FOR THE STATE! > jingoistic > > adjective - derogatory > characterized by extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy. > “jingoistic propaganda” Which bit did I miss? ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/504852_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/553 "2017-11-14T16:10:28Z")
Kim-baka accusing someone else of trolling or thread derailment is a lot like the sun calling fire hot. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/554 "2017-11-14T17:19:25Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Besides, from all the people around here I have had a first-hand experience and “felt” doomsday on my skin - I’ve lost a carrier to it. Wow, such incredible experience. I’ve survived several. So, I guess I get to take you to school now… > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Doomsdays are alpha weapons for destroying capital ships, not for planetary bombardment or “obliteration”. But as any weapon, it has its own rate of fire. And, knowing it’s estimated damage, we can estimate amount of damage it does per second, and it will be about 5 000 conventional units. What can cause about 5 000 damage per second? Technically about 5 battleships, for example, abaddons (with 1 000 damage per second each). And, since doomsday’s rate of fire is once per five minutes, to equalize damage dealt, we need to shoot five abaddons for five minutes. As you yourself point out, this is irrelevant. Worse, it’s _completely farcical_. As I’m sure you know, an atmosphere can absorb a meteor shower without incident. Take the combined mass of all those meteors, smash it together into a single projectile, and that becomes less the case. Individual, smaller impacts and energy discharges are absorbed and their energy dispersed far more easily and at a far shallower depth than larger ones. Consider: The amount of solar energy received by a normal terrestrial planet around a middling-sized star at any given instant is in the range of 80,000-90,000TW of power. This is being delivered across the surface of the planet in a very dispersed package. It’s the equivalent of a roughly 19-21 megaton detonation. So by your logic, a 20 megaton bomb will just… make some flowers grow, right? It’s the same amount of energy being delivered, so it should be just as harmless, right? > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > You know, who are the real monsters? > > It’s the trolls, who jump into the discussion and dare to demand an author to accept some sort of random, logically incorrect, insulting and absolutely irrelevant to the original topic crap. What, you mean like the random, logically incorrect, insulting, and absolutely irrelevant claims that a)being destroyed by a DD once gives you the first clue about its physics, or b)that spreading energy out over a large number of small impacts like a few thousand battleships gives the same destructive power as focusing it into a single, concentrated strike? Because that was both irrelevant, (or as you put it…) > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > But in any way, disregarding what your answer on this question will be, in the end… it’s not really that important. it’s logically incorrect, and it’s insulting to everyone’s intelligence… it’s also insulting to your allies. I mean, they’ve spent how much money over how many years developing lasers? According to you, all they needed to do was light a billion candles! > [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > After all, we are speaking about how to end the war, Get CONCORD to declare a winner. Because right now, the war _cannot end_. The State has signed a treaty that says they won’t win. So has the Federation. This means that in order to win the war, the State must violate its obligations under the CONCORD treaty, and demonstrate that the State will not honor its given word. You don’t want the State to be _dishonorable_, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Charles\_Cambridge\_Schmidt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/charles_cambridge_schmidt/32/372217_2.png) [@Charles\_Cambridge\_Schmidt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Charles_Cambridge_Schmidt)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 1:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/555 "2017-11-15T01:18:16Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > You know, who are the real monsters? > > It’s the trolls -Diana Kim, discussing genocidal war criminals ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/556 "2017-11-15T04:05:56Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Get CONCORD to declare a winner. Because right now, the war cannot end. The State has signed a treaty that says they won’t win. So has the Federation. This means that in order to win the war, the State must violate its obligations under the CONCORD treaty, and demonstrate that the State will not honor its given word. I’ve already had a ridiculous encounter with you and have learned about your unhealthy obsession with “declaring a winner”. You see, for me it doesn’t matter who declares what, who will be known as winner or loser. And I am really not in the mood of discussing it with deranged psychopaths, who consider space combat (or heck, even honorable duels on cold weapons) as some sort of bloody sports, where all they need is to be “declared winner”. _My goal is to stop the war, to stop gallente invaders from attacking us or bringing their filth (as what they consider ‘culture’) to us, without giving them or letting them hold under their occupation even an iota of our lands, people, assets, or anything else that we have created, constructed or possess by other means, and without changing the way we live our lives inside our own territory even by any tiny insignificant mean._ If we achieve that with being declared ‘losers’, I am fine with that. D. Kim, Strike Commander, State Protectorate, CMC, Caldari State ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/557 "2017-11-15T04:16:30Z")
So does that mean you will return everything the Gallente ever gave to you? Including… Oh, space flight. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 4:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/558 "2017-11-15T04:32:39Z")
Learn to read and stop asking idiotic questions. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/559 "2017-11-15T04:42:35Z")
So basically you want to take advantage of everything they gave you and still talk down to them… Yep, about as expected. Of course we all know you will never get what you want, so it’s pretty irrelevant. But still, always funny to see how inconsistent you are ---
**Author:** ![Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jehoshaphat_ambraelle/32/513430_2.png) [@Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jehoshaphat_Ambraelle)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/560 "2017-11-15T06:59:43Z")
So… Lemme just try to sum up your argument here, as I understand it. You believe the State would be _completely_ in the right to go on a genocidal rampage through the Federation in order to end the war. But the Federation is 100% evil because it decided that securing a more defensible border in Black Rise was necessary for its continued security. In a region that, might I point out, was intentionally colonized, among other reasons, in order to give the State a staging ground for invading the Federation. In other words, it is OK for the State to do to the Federation whatever it feels necessary for its security, but if the Federation lays a finger on any Caldari it is automatically evil. Does that seem like a bit of a double standard to you? ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/561 "2017-11-15T06:59:49Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > So basically you want to take advantage of everything they gave you and still talk down to them… > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > how inconsistent you are Go troll other places if you can’t bring anything except deluded rants and lies. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/562 "2017-11-15T07:00:39Z")
> [@Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](#): > > So… Lemme just try to sum up your argument here, as I understand it. You believe the State would be completely in the right to go on a genocidal rampage through the Federation in order to end the war. Then you utterly fail to understand it. Try again. I don’t take lightly attempts of others declare what “I believe” when it is absolute crap and their own misinterpretation with stupidity. > [@Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](#): > > But the Federation is 100% evil because it decided that securing a more defensible border in Black Rise was necessary for its continued security. In a region that, might I point out, was intentionally colonized, among other reasons, in order to give the State a staging ground for invading the Federation. We colonized Black Rise because it was full of resources and because we could, while others failed. That clearly wasn’t our intent, as we aren’t oppressionist nation like Gallente, who loves to oppress and invade others. And if Gallente judge us by their own standards (as imagining themselves would do that), their paranoia is really not our problem, it’s theirs. The Black Rise is ours, it’s not negotiable, and those who will try to take it, will be slaughtered. > [@Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](#): > > Does that seem like a bit of a double standard to you? No, because it’s not double standard, it’s your failure to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jehoshaphat_ambraelle/32/513430_2.png) [@Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jehoshaphat_Ambraelle)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/563 "2017-11-15T07:09:39Z")
Then please, by all means, explain it! What did I miss? If that’s not your point what is? Maybe I’m just having a hard time understanding it. But it’s not possible to have a discussion if only one person knows what the discussion is about. Can you help a poor, stupid, filthy Gallente out? ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/564 "2017-11-15T07:22:09Z")
> [@Jehoshaphat\_Ambraelle](#): > > Then please, by all means, explain it! > > What did I miss? If that’s not your point what is? > > Maybe I’m just having a hard time understanding it. But it’s not possible to have a discussion if only one person knows what the discussion is about. Can you help a poor, stupid, filthy Gallente out? First of all, that I never ever called for genocide of gallenteans. That will be an outrageous crime of embezzlement of military resources. Gallenteans in their mass are just lambs and murdering them won’t help our military objective. Unlike State sitizens, Gallentean has sizeable smaller military forces, consisting only of small percentage of their population, and their ability to draft is limited as well, majority of their citizens won’t even know how to load an ammunition into tank barrel. My goal is to destroy the Federation as a political entity, that wages wars against neighbors and oppresses whom they can. My point was to invade them and make them unable to attack us anymore, to ensure the peace by rendering them unable to attack anyone physically, and to dismantle the criminal regime by invalidating the Federal charter itself (if they decide to surrender before we take absolute control by military forces). To ensure peace and stability in the cluster by removing troublemakers. ---
**Author:** ![Anabella\_Rella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anabella_rella/32/504852_2.png) [@Anabella\_Rella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anabella_Rella)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2017, 7:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511/565 "2017-11-15T07:24:48Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > To ensure peace and stability in the cluster by removing troublemakers. So when the hell are YOU leaving? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511.md?page=27) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-end-the-war/21511.md?page=29)