# To My Minmatar Cousins **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [October 29, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341 "2019-10-29T20:46:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lunetta\_Hakaari](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lunetta_hakaari/32/441047_2.png) [@Lunetta\_Hakaari](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lunetta_Hakaari)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/62 "2019-11-05T12:12:45Z")
It is a nations workers that bring it victory. The Feudal elites and Capitalists are but leeches with the conceit the claim the blood they drink is their own. ---
**Author:** ![Gan\_Asbjordja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gan_asbjordja/32/167905_2.png) [@Gan\_Asbjordja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gan_Asbjordja)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/63 "2019-11-05T13:00:11Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Judging and punishing people based upon faith… no, no moral equivalence at all. Hang on, you seem to be implying there is some moral equivalence, so judging and punishing people based on faith is _bad_? Or is this the usual “bad when you do it, good when we do it” dance. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/64 "2019-11-05T15:18:38Z")
> [@Gan\_Asbjordja](#): > > Or is this the usual “bad when you do it, good when we do it” dance. It is. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/65 "2019-11-05T15:47:42Z")
> [@Gan\_Asbjordja](#): > > “bad when you do it, good when we do it” dance. I offered no verdict on your tradition. It isn’t my place. Harsh justice prescribed by culture and religion, ill-understood by outsiders. None of it is a concept abhorrent or unfamiliar to me. Peoples are built on such things. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/66 "2019-11-05T16:42:50Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Peoples are built on such things. And _decent_ people learn to overcome that foundation. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/67 "2019-11-05T17:38:23Z")
So sayeth the greatest authority upon decency. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/68 "2019-11-05T18:11:17Z")
Well, greater than any authority a slaver would have at least. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/69 "2019-11-05T19:23:44Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > And _decent_ people As I’ve come to expect, a clever point. But a shallow one, decency as a talking point is as defensible as they come, but it has nothing at all to do with your . You talk about decent people overcoming the foundations their society is built on, I don’t for a second believe you to be that naive. Decency is in what you make of the world you have, imposing change on the world requires many indecent acts and is the purview of the strong and the ruthless. > [@Tyrel\_Toov](#): > > Well, greater than any authority a slaver would have at least. I think you’d find, had you any wits at all that; firstly being decent and authority on the subject are barely related, and secondly a truer measure than any other is how those of the lowest station are treated. If you (and I don’t believe that you do) wish to understand the conduct in that regard of Lord and Lady Newelle, observe Ms Alland’s loyalty. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/70 "2019-11-05T19:40:24Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Decency is in what you make of the world you have, imposing change on the world requires many indecent acts and is the purview of the strong and the ruthless. Decency is in _your own_ actions. You’re right that imposing change on the world requires strength, often ruthlessness, and usually indecency. Imposing change on _yourself_ requires only strength. A decent person doesn’t ostracize or demonize others over circumstances they could never control. They might not call for massive social change (though they might!), but they at least try to embody the change they would like to see, if indeed change is what they seek. Decent people, in one of the great ironies of the cluster, follow more widely and openly the cardinal rule of membership in Goonswarm: ~~Don’t sign your posts, you idiots~~ Don’t be assholes to one another. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/71 "2019-11-05T21:02:14Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Don’t be assholes to one another. Does that apply to everyone, or to their own? ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/72 "2019-11-05T21:09:27Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > firstly being decent and authority on the subject are barely related If you didn’t lack a basic understanding of the concept then we wouldn’t have an issue with the Amarr in the first place. > [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > secondly a truer measure than any other is how those of the lowest station are treated. Kidnapping, drugging, beating, raping and destroying the culture of those you consider lower then you. Yup, a paragon of decency, the Amarr. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/73 "2019-11-05T21:11:05Z")
> [@Tyrel\_Toov](#): > > Kidnapping, drugging, beating, raping and destroying the culture Which exactly of those things have you known Lord Newelle to do? ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/74 "2019-11-05T21:38:31Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Which exactly of those things have you known Lord Newelle to do? So far, to my knowledge, none. But he appears to me the kind of person that, when told to jump by certain people, will only ask “how high?” ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/75 "2019-11-05T21:41:38Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Does that apply to everyone, or to their own? I’d say decent people would do their best to apply that standard to everyone. They might not always succeed, but they make the attempt. It’s one of the big things that separates ‘decent people’ from say… me. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/76 "2019-11-05T21:48:42Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > But he appears to me the kind of person that, when told to jump by certain people, will only ask “how high?” Keeping faith with one’s liege and people is a character flaw? That presumably seems less alien to you than to I. As an addendum. Generally we are tasked with a what rather than how. I cannot speak directly for any one of my compatriots, only myself in saying that within the parameters of my duty the admonitions of conscience and humanity are kept firmly in mind. > [@Arrendis](#): > > I’d say decent people would do their best to apply that standard to everyone. Gratuitous mistreatment of anyone is counterproductive, but there are a great many things I suspect you and I may disagree whether constitutes ‘being an asshole’. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/77 "2019-11-05T22:05:14Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Keeping faith with one’s liege and people is a character flaw? That presumably seems less alien to you than to I. Well, I’ve also seen him lament being told to jump, but he will follow the order just the same. So yes, if you blindly follow everything you’re told, even when you yourself have doubts, it absolutely is a flaw. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/78 "2019-11-05T22:10:37Z")
> [@Teinyhr](#): > > if you blindly follow everything you’re told Where you see blindness I see faith, and loyalty. Things that have bound our people for millennia. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/79 "2019-11-05T22:30:28Z")
> [@Saronu\_Yassavi](#): > > Where you see blindness I see faith, and loyalty. I think we have another topic for this. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/80 "2019-11-05T22:56:53Z")
Well, he holds slaves, so he’s party to kidnapping for starters. Vitoxin is the premier method for controlling slaves, so drugging is likely. I’m sure his slaves don’t get to disobey, so beatings likely ensue. Really, the only one I’m not sure about is him having breeding facilities. I’d like to believe that he’s not that disgusting of a person. ---
**Author:** ![Saronu\_Yassavi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saronu_yassavi/32/386208_2.png) [@Saronu\_Yassavi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saronu_Yassavi)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341/81 "2019-11-05T23:25:00Z")
My family own slaves and I do my part in management of them, you seem to misunderstand quite a bit. Many slaves on our holdings work the same land their grandfather’s grandfather did. Others from nearby planets, and a few from situations that were far more than disadvantageous. Slaves are expected to work, this is not news. Vitoxin like so much else is less prevalent than claimed. On a well run estate, even corporal punishment need not be administered with great frequency, withdrawal of privileges often suffice, and frankly a particularly recalcitrant slave can always be sold and take their chances elsewhere. As for breeding facilities, while not fringe they’re certainly not mainstream either. I certainly wouldn’t buy from one, I have no need for Ealur slaves. Let alone trying to make Minmatar ones into such. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-my-minmatar-cousins/198341.md?page=5)