# To the Amarr: **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 9, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404 "2018-11-09T18:45:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/41 "2018-11-13T09:22:42Z")
> [@Seraphea\_Vellastraan](#): > > Are you asking me, or Admiral Lok’ri? Neither, actually. I was saying that if you want to berate someone for not taking action now, those are the questions you should be asking. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/42 "2018-11-13T10:51:34Z")
“Millions dead.” “No but we don’t have an accurate number.” “A range of x to y millions dead, according to relatively trustworthy news and conservative extrapolation.” “No but we don’t have an accurate number. Maybe they lied.” Millions dead… and PIE is sitting here trying to fuckin’ piss all over their graves playing pedant about _how many_ millions died, and whether or not the Empire’s spokesmen low or highballed the number? _MILLIONS_ are dead, you sanctimonious piece of dogshit, Lok’ri. Just in space, JUST IN SPACE ALONE, your fuckin’ Militias murdered millions over Kahah, while dirtside your Empire corralled more into ghettos and shelled them. … and you’re bitchin’ about whether it was three or five or ten or whatever. Spirits ■■■■ me sideways, what is _wrong_ with you? When a nation commits genocide, murdering even just thousands, or tens of thousands, or hundreds of thousands, it is a crime against humanity. When the line crosses _millions_ of civilians, the specifics fuckin’ ceases to matter. “Millions” is the only word you need. It’s _too many_. It’s unacceptable. It’s enough to condemn your nation for eternity, along with everyone who upholds it. It’s crossing lines into territory where nightmares roam, and coming back from it is next to impossible. … and you deflect with pedantry about _how many_ millions it is, as if it’s even remotely important compared to your nation murdering millions to begin with. Is remaining loyal to your nation becoming so difficult that you desperately have to try and rewrite the history of what your nation _does_, just so you can bear it? ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/43 "2018-11-13T12:16:36Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > it is a crime against humanity. I do not believe crimes against humanity is legally defined within the Empire or by the CONCORD Assembly which it is signatory to. To be fair, it’s not defined in the State, either. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/44 "2018-11-13T12:39:09Z")
To be fair, “crimes against humanity” is more a philosophical term than a legal one. The Republic can stand judge on Crimes against _the Tribes_ but how could we judge on those against humanity in general? But that does not mean that the “crime” against humanity is not an atrocity, a wrong, or that squabbling about how many millions would be somehow relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Kithrus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kithrus/32/341031_2.png) [@Kithrus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kithrus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/45 "2018-11-13T15:06:53Z")
Everyone is so keen to get the amarrians to to do something but forget we all did. From conservative PIE to liberal SFRIM everyone agreed this purge was unwarranted and Sa-Baron is at lest suspected to be consorting with blood raiders. Realistically what are we supposed to do? None of us here in either organization have any say over Kahah, less then half are even Khanids. We all put pressure on our governments to investigate deeper, use a tempered hand. We chased leads and are still gathing evidence. We looked endlessly for a peaceful solution. In the end we did everything we could save attack the Khanid forces dirrectly which as we clearly saw was a waste of more lives. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/46 "2018-11-13T15:18:01Z")
Was it not people from Amarrian corporations who fired on unarmed humanitarian ships? A right and a wrong don’t absolve the wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/47 "2018-11-13T16:02:14Z")
“We did nothing but fight those who tried to stop the atrocities, and managed to save exactly _zero_ people. Woe is us, y u so mean?!?!” If you pathetic lot had actually achieved anything, _literally anything_, you guys might have had cause to whine and bitch but as it stands “we did everything we could” means “we achieved fuckall”. Then you _fought those who actually did do things, defending the Khanid mass murderers and Imperial Genocide_. What are you supposed to do? Well, let me know when you’ve tried _anything_ and we’ll talk. ---
**Author:** ![Kithrus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kithrus/32/341031_2.png) [@Kithrus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kithrus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/48 "2018-11-13T17:01:48Z")
No? This is the first I’m hearing of it. ---
**Author:** ![Garion\_Avarr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/garion_avarr/32/415302_2.png) [@Garion\_Avarr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Garion_Avarr)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/49 "2018-11-13T18:27:12Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Was it not people from Amarrian corporations who fired on unarmed humanitarian ships? A right and a wrong don’t absolve the wrong. If you are speaking of the incident in which Samira’s ship was destroyed by CORCORD after being flagged criminal by the Khanid, no. Neither PIE nor SFRIM assisted with that, though some forces from both were present. The SFRIM forces present were part of the humanitarian convoy Ms. Kherner – at the time, a part-time SFRIM employee herself – was part of, and, if I am recalling which incident was which, assisted in pulling survivors from the wreck. If you are referring to another incident, I am unfamiliar with it, as it goes counter to everything I have seen in the system (and the fact that SFRIM has, since the beginning of the situation in Kahah, maintained a humanitarian presence in the system, despite multiple attacks on our aid stations by outside actors aligned with the Sansha). Please let me know any substantiated reports you have, SFRIM would be _most_ interested in such information. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/50 "2018-11-13T18:51:39Z")
> [@Kithrus](#): > > Realistically what are we supposed to do? How about not actively work against people who were trying to save lives? How about maybe even _helping out_, if you **really** wanna get crazy? ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/51 "2018-11-13T18:51:47Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > To be fair, “crimes against humanity” is more a philosophical term than a legal one. The Republic can stand judge on Crimes against _the Tribes_ but how could we judge on those against humanity in general? > > But that does not mean that the “crime” against humanity is not an atrocity, a wrong, or that squabbling about how many millions would be somehow relevant. It just seemed odd to me, notions like crimes against humanity have their source in Gallentean moral, philosophical and political epistemology (because as they like to tell themselves, they are the moral police for all of humanity). I was just surprised to hear a Matari repeat such notions. ---
**Author:** ![Kithrus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kithrus/32/341031_2.png) [@Kithrus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kithrus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/52 "2018-11-13T18:52:59Z")
Your method of saving lives is ram a freighter full of weapons into a military zone. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/53 "2018-11-13T18:55:50Z")
> [@Kithrus](#): > > Your method of saving lives is ram a freighter full of weapons into a military zone. That was not Arrendis. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/54 "2018-11-13T18:56:53Z")
> [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](#): > > It just seemed odd to me, notions like crimes against humanity have their source in Gallentean moral, philosophical and political epistemology (because as they like to tell themselves, they are the moral police for all of humanity). I was just surprised to hear a Matari repeat such notions. It’s not like we didn’t spend 100+ years following a Gallentean style of government and like they weren’t a huge influence on Matari looking to make something of themselves in the galaxy after newfound freedom. Additionally, all nations throughout time have concepts of atrocities. If crime against humanity was missing from any nation’s vocabulary that called themselves civilized, woe unto them. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/55 "2018-11-13T18:57:52Z")
My method of saving lives is attempting to extract the victims of indiscriminate slaughter. Doing that means going into an area where indiscriminate slaughter is taking place. Going into an area like that means having the means to prevent yourself from being more of the slaughtered. Those means usually include deterrents like ‘I’m armed, and will shoot back, you feckless thugs’. Further, distribution of that potential for deterrence can minimize the loss of life by delaying the onslaught long enough for more extractions to take place. Your method of saving lives, it seems, is **suck murderers’ cocks** and hope they’ll fall asleep in the post-coital glow, so they forget about lobbing artillery shells on children. ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/56 "2018-11-13T19:04:28Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Your method of saving lives, it seems, is **suck murderers’ cocks** and hope they’ll fall asleep in the post-coital glow, so they forget about lobbing artillery shells on children. Still a better love story than RKN Aeon meets dumb terrorist Providence. ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/57 "2018-11-13T19:05:21Z")
Well, atrocities are always a matter of perspective. Certainly, many Caldari would consider what the Gallente did in their orbital bombardment of the Homeworld an atrocity just as much as the many Gallente would consider what I and my squadron did in Sinq Laison in the latter years of the war an atrocity. Both sides will think themselves in the right while seeing the other as the villain. However, a crime against humanity implies a crime has been committed (requiring legal statutes) and that there exists a legal arbiter able to prosecute such crimes which represents all of humanity itself. Which, right now, is a nonsense notion. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/58 "2018-11-13T19:06:52Z")
> [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](#): > > Still a better love story than RKN Aeon meets dumb terrorist Providence. I swear, I wish I’d had a HIC to hold that AEON down with an infinipoint. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/59 "2018-11-13T19:09:02Z")
So the rest of the Navy could show up with Faxes and more support? Let it be. They deployed enough to take out the Freighter and left it at that, leaving their capsuleer allies to get absolutely shredded to bits. It’s about as good as it would have gotten. Neither side had the slightest chance of going up against what the Navy _could have_ dumped on us, so I frankly don’t mind the field being left in Matari hands. Now if we’d had Republic backing on the other hand… … well. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404/60 "2018-11-13T19:15:43Z")
> [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](#): > > Now if we’d had Republic backing on the other hand… Still waiting for the ‘sanctions or worse’… [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/to-the-amarr/119404.md?page=4)