# Triglavian Diplomacy **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [November 13, 2018, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182 "2018-11-13T12:29:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/41 "2018-11-13T18:29:11Z")
unless they re-write (or have access to others) mutaplasmids, it will do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Synthetic\_Cultist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/synthetic_cultist/32/388342_2.png) [@Synthetic\_Cultist](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Synthetic_Cultist)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 8:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/42 "2018-11-13T20:05:05Z")
I have a Question. The Worm was able to Alter all Filaments, including Those that were in Sealed Boxes in station Hangars, Correct ? Does this not then Mean that any Filaments should be Regarded as a form of Tracking Device that the Triglavians can Monitor things with ? ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/43 "2018-11-13T20:07:15Z")
I get your point, but its wrong. What the Triglavians are doing is using the bacteria in the same way you might line an engine with high temperature ceramics. It allows the device to function way beyond its normal design parameters. Firstly you have no evidence to suggest such a hypotheses, so its an argument form ignorance; a logical fallacy. Secondly the basic biochemistry of extremophiles is fundamentally different to human biochemistry. So, how do your scientists suggest that the Triglavians construct an extremophile body, that is compatible with an infomorph. The process is essentially remapping states to a similar structure. The structure cannot be similar if the underlying biochemistry is different. You offer no evidence, so without a Triglavian extremophile body, the argument is basically extremely hot air. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/44 "2018-11-13T21:16:31Z")
I have no words … literally… no, really, I don’t even know what to say… you really think that a human body can only be reproduced by having the exact same composition? then I guess old school alchemy should work right? throw all “ingredients” and it should work no? I also wonder then how all those silicat-based brain work… or the constructs… or the drifters… you say I offer “no evidence” then I ask you to go back [only a few post ago](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/30?u=umbre_fallenstar) but I guess it wasn’t clear, so let me rephrase it for you… once you have a cell, a PROGRAMMABLE CELL, you can write it to recreate a brain, a liver, a heart, anything. but , you know, I guess my “ignorance” can’t help… I will not continue this masquerade… I respected you and you theories, even if I disagree with them. I guess that asking for the same in return was too much for the IGS… If real scientists working in biology can’t convince you, what could be? Guess we will know for sure when we get to see a triglavian body… Have a good day sir. ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/45 "2018-11-14T00:24:48Z")
Its not a programmable cell though. “Triglavian bioadaptive technology makes extensive use of engineered colonies of extremophilic bacteria, that are used to grow, harvest and adapt various resources found in Abyssal Deadspace. Artificial colonizing plasmids integrated into specialist tools used for direct adaptation of technology can be found in Triglavian caches in various stages of development. These mutaplasmids can be used to alter the characteristics of a wide variety of equipment types, depending on the strain and the bioadaptive tool with which they are integrated.” Its using an engineered bacterium to change the resources found in the Abyss, like a yeast would. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/46 "2018-11-14T12:36:02Z")
This text prove nothing in a sense or in an other. “artificial colonizing” " engineered colonies", etc it could mean “DNA altered bacterias” or “totally created species of bacteria” or “combining tech and bio”, etc so if this is your “proof” then it’s not sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/47 "2018-11-14T14:24:57Z")
Umbre, it is really simple, you are claiming that the Triglavians have no bodies and build artificially engineered ones as they need them. That is, as I understand it, your claim. I say there is no evidence to support this, and the evidence we have, while such a thing could be possible, suggests otherwise. It is not my position to need to provide proof. I personally, examine everything I can and read up, sometimes I may get things wrong, but I do try to go from an established position and conjecture from there, saying I don’t know but this could be a possibility. Your position, because there is no evidence to support it, is that it is an Argument from ignorance, As I said, a logical fallacy, and the burden of proof is on you. When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a _burden of proof_ to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo. This is also stated in [Hitchens’s razor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens%27s_razor). Carl Sagan proposed a related criterion, the [Sagan standard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagan_standard), “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/48 "2018-11-14T14:34:10Z")
ok, I think then you should re-read what I said… I never claimed it was the case, FOR SURE, I always talked about it as a theory, a possibility, and made very clear that I still needed a definitive proof. You on the other hand, used your time to say “it’s not possible”, to which I asked you multiple time “why it is not possible?” and you showed nothing to invalidate my position. So, unless you can prove my theory to be false, it is still a POSSIBILITY. And with what you advanced a little earlier, you could prove almost any theory “Argument from ignorance”… Once again, I never said it was true, only it was: 1. possible. 2. fitting all evidence we have. If I had thought my theory was a “fact” I would have listed it in the triglavian facts lists. Which I did not because it’s still a THEORY. With your explanation, I understand better you position. You thought I said “that’s a fact”. but it is not the case. If I had a proof, I would have made a specific thread about it, exposing everything… ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/49 "2018-11-14T20:24:40Z")
So if we take out the fancy science language, the Triglavians are using engineered bacteria as self replicating nanomachines. Perhaps we should be studying how to use the same principles with our own range of bacteria, maybe get more consistent reults than using mutaplasmids. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/50 "2018-11-14T20:26:36Z")
IF my theory is correct IF we learn how they did it in the first place and IF we don’t mess up something that would destroy the entirety of our civilisation based on nanomachines then possibly. EDIT:: also, don’t forget that the main interest in my theory for the triglavian is to have something that allow them to survive in the harsh condition of abyssal deadspace ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/51 "2018-11-14T20:50:14Z")
For all we know the conditions of our space are just as harsh to them as Abyssal pockets are to us. I’ve actually been working on a combination of DNA sequence as a programmable backbone, with liquid crystal polymers to produce useful structures and effects. Most promising so far is a polyceramic foam that packs flat, or molds out to any planform you program in. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/52 "2018-11-14T21:14:29Z")
Well, we don’t know yet if their are able to live in our space. Of course, with my theory it’s not possible without a substitute body But since it’s only a theory, we don’t know (making this very clear for those assuming it’s a verified fact). For the second part of your post, it’s really interesting, I hope you will keep us informed of the progression of your work. ---
**Author:** ![Kuba\_Ganowski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kuba_ganowski/32/87636_2.png) [@Kuba\_Ganowski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kuba_Ganowski)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/53 "2018-11-15T02:08:10Z")
With compassion I ve read this topic… ---
**Author:** ![Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/corraidhin_farsaidh/32/10994_2.png) [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Corraidhin_Farsaidh)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/54 "2018-11-15T12:40:13Z")
> [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](#): > > For the second part of your post, it’s really interesting, I hope you will keep us informed of the progression of your work. I’ll try to find the time to draw up a white paper on it sometime. Folks tend to underestimate the ubiquitous nature of liquid crystal substances as they seem so mundane, yet human life as we know it couldn’t exist without them. The two most succesful research areas so far have resulted in an improved material for use in RAH applications. I’m still working on scaling it up to starship application, but I have functioning prototypes at the human scale. I also built one of those ‘car turns into giant mecha’ type toys kids love. It’s fully functional, including weapon systems, and my little cousin loves it. There’s no reason in materials terms why this shouldn’t scale to much larger applications either. Again another work in progress. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Saboteur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dread_saboteur/32/270709_2.png) [@Dread\_Saboteur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dread_Saboteur)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/55 "2018-11-16T07:00:23Z")
For all we know those ships of theirs might not be manned at all. My fav theory is that the Collective resides in a sort of construct just like the Sleepers do . It’d be much easier to transfer conciousness around without a clone body from ship to construct then to another ship,also good for avoiding the jovian disease ---
**Author:** ![Annisir\_Kaugan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/annisir_kaugan/32/388372_2.png) [@Annisir\_Kaugan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Annisir_Kaugan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 9:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/56 "2018-11-16T09:09:58Z")
Oveg Durst was able to fly the original cruiser and we would know. It would be in the blueprints. The _‘flow of Vyraj’_ from Slavic mythology, refers to the place _‘where birds fly in winter and souls go after death’_. Seems a likely candidate for a Construct, but that is only for the Navka. Which would indicate that only part of their society resides in a Construct. The Koschoi operate like capsuleers do, going off the etymology, soul is in a needle, inside an egg etc. Why would they need survival suits if they don’t have bodies? Again, if they could make extremophile bodies then they wouldn’t need the suits either. The Construct is another pointer to the Enheduanni, that was their thing; Constructs, and seamless transition between construct and clone. ---
**Author:** ![Teinyhr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teinyhr/32/374406_2.png) [@Teinyhr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teinyhr)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/57 "2018-11-16T09:51:05Z")
(( Just to confirm you guys are aware this is not the lore discussion -subforum but an in-character one? I was under the impression that very, very few people know of the Enheduanni and most of them are dead too. )) ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_paradisi_anteovnuecci/32/388691_2.png) [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/58 "2018-11-16T09:52:12Z")
((hey my dude, this is the IGS 😛)) Personally, I believe that Triglavian skill packages include a broad variety of information on the tech of many more races than their own - they haven’t been identified as “Triglavian (Ship)”, after all, instead being deemed “Precursor”. It’s my hope that we might learn more about other ancient tech through the use of Triglavian routes that have already proven to be so stunningly adaptable. ---
**Author:** ![Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/umbre_fallenstar/32/260859_2.png) [@Umbre\_Fallenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Umbre_Fallenstar)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2018, 12:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/59 "2018-11-16T12:19:32Z")
> [@Annisir\_Kaugan](#): > > Why would they need survival suits if they don’t have bodies? Again, if they could make extremophile bodies then they wouldn’t need the suits either. IF my theory is correct, then they would need the suits to come in our world. It’s not because that WE can live in without suits, that others wouldn’t. > [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](#): > > It’s my hope that we might learn more about other ancient tech through the use of Triglavian routes that have already proven to be so stunningly adaptable. I concur at 200% sir. I really hope that with learning more things about the triglavians, we will learn more about the rest of the cluster. ((@Teinyhr I can only talk to my part, but yes I know the difference and don’t think to have referenced things contrary to what we know “IC”. Apart maybe for my friend opinion but I very specified that it was a thought experiment ^^ on the forums I only interact as IC, because it’s what I prefer as interactions ^^)) ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182/60 "2018-11-19T12:32:06Z")
> [@Corraidhin\_Farsaidh](#): > > the Triglavians are using engineered bacteria Probably edited Archaea at the very least. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-diplomacy/120182.md?page=4)