# Triglavian Victory! **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pve, low-sec, high-sec\ **Created:** [May 26, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178 "2020-05-26T15:07:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Talas\_Dir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/talas_dir/32/255038_2.png) [@Talas\_Dir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Talas_Dir)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2020, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/146 "2020-06-05T23:27:42Z")
People who choose to make the game stale shouldn’t complain that Eve is stale, then. ---
**Author:** ![Syn\_Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syn_shi/32/242535_2.png) [@Syn\_Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syn_Shi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 3:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/147 "2020-06-06T03:14:00Z")
Say that to those pvp players who were keen on shooting at hi-sec players but as soon as null and the low-sec pirates showed up they stopped going into the new low-sec system. Very telling about the so called pvp’rs among us. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 3:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/148 "2020-06-06T03:21:46Z")
> [@Syn\_Shi](#): > > Say that to those pvp players who were keen on shooting at hi-sec players but as soon as null and the low-sec pirates showed up they stopped going into the new low-sec system. Very telling about the so called pvp’rs among us. PvP doesn’t imply some kind of knightly sense of honor and duty. The players who killed carebears but ran when null blobs showed up with their titans played _well_ and acted _properly_ by accomplishing their objectives, and then withdrawing before taking losses. This is _much_ more reasonable behavior than that of the average carebear, who will refuse to shoot another player under any circumstance, and will try to avoid any kind of dangerous environment at all costs, even if the benefits far outweigh the risks. The carebear mentality that in order to be considered as a PvPer, you have to at all times be willing to engage in a full-frontal fight with anyone who engages you (even if it means certain death), is absolutely laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Syn\_Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syn_shi/32/242535_2.png) [@Syn\_Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syn_Shi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 3:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/149 "2020-06-06T03:24:33Z")
lol…uh-huh…rolls eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 3:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/150 "2020-06-06T03:30:20Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The carebear mentality that in order to be considered as a PvPer, you have to at all times be willing to engage in a full-frontal fight with anyone who engages you (even if it means certain death), is absolutely laughable. Clearly you don’t hull-tank ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 3:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/151 "2020-06-06T03:42:03Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > Clearly you don’t hull-tank I Hulk-tank. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/152 "2020-06-06T14:05:39Z")
As u can see people run when seeing they have no chance. Smart move for carebear and pvper alike to not do the thing thats beyond their skill and ISK. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > carebear mentality Is a myth. What u attributed to that, is seen also among PvPers, only they call themselves different names. Every time someone weaker is denying the fight, it robs the other side from victory, thats annoying and disappointing from the point of potential victor, thats why people react emotionally rather than logically. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/153 "2020-06-06T18:12:20Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Is a myth. What u attributed to that, is seen also among PvPers, only they call themselves different names. Nonsense. PvP players don’t have this weird concept of “honor PvP” where you’re only supposed to attack “honorable” targets, preferably only those targets that have voluntarily opted into having an arranged duel. That’s purely a carebear thing, PvP players fully understand that you kill people when you can win and avoid fights you can’t win. ---
**Author:** ![Talas\_Dir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/talas_dir/32/255038_2.png) [@Talas\_Dir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Talas_Dir)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/154 "2020-06-06T18:15:28Z")
Sounds boring. No wonder this game has so many bittervets! ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/155 "2020-06-06T18:19:11Z")
> [@Talas\_Dir](#): > > Sounds boring. What do you expect from players whose only goal in EVE is to complete as many menial farming tasks as possible? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/156 "2020-06-06T19:43:25Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > carebear mentality > > Is a myth. What u attributed to that, is seen also among PvPers, only they call themselves different names. > > Every time someone weaker is denying the fight, it robs the other side from victory, thats annoying and disappointing from the point of potential victor, thats why people react emotionally rather than logically. It is _not_ a myth. PvPers will engage in fights they can win and run from fights they can’t win. Which, if frustrating for their enemies, is still perfectly normal, reasonable, and expected behavior. Carebears, on the other hand, will avoid fighting at all costs, even when they have the advantage. They do it out of both fear _and_ principle, because PvP is “bad” and “evil” and “sociopathic.” Anyone who attacks them is considered a “mean ganking griefer” or whatever, and by effect they never attack other players because they don’t want to be seen as such. PvP should not exist, or should at least be something that is limited to opt-in duels in arenas, because that’s how you have a “nice game that keeps the psychos out.” ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/157 "2020-06-06T20:36:06Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Carebears, on the other hand, will avoid fighting at all costs, even when they have the advantage. Can you provide an example of where carebear has an advantage in a PvP? ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/158 "2020-06-06T20:37:26Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > Can you provide an example of where carebear has an advantage in a PvP? 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/159 "2020-06-06T20:39:15Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > Can you provide an example of where carebear has an advantage in a PvP? Nope. Inherent in the concept of “carebear” is the belief that one is a helpless perma-victim and PvP can only be a loss that is imposed upon them. There are many situations where a non-carebear player (or group of players) in the same ship(s) would win, but because they are carebears defeat is guaranteed. The solution, of course, is for the carebears to stop being bad at EVE. But this will never happen. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/160 "2020-06-06T20:42:45Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > Carebears, on the other hand, will avoid fighting at all costs, even when they have the advantage. > > Can you provide an example of where carebear has an advantage in a PvP? I’ve done thousands of wars in my time, and there were countless times where these people could have absolutely shut me down if they simply _tried_ doing it, because I was alone, and there were twenty of _them_. And yet all that happened was that I sat on a gate or on the station, killing them one at a time for _hours_, while they threatened to report me to CCP in local chat the entire time. Seriously, they could have baited me with a Drake or something, then undocked two dozen ■■■■-fit Thoraxes on me and killed me, but they never did. Well, _some_ did. But of course I don’t consider _those_ people carebears. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/161 "2020-06-06T20:57:27Z")
Well… First thing you do is to ask them to have an experience in PvP. Which they didn’t have. Second you ask them to know you and be sure you are not bait. Which they didn’t know. For example: i’ve seen it many times in Dodixie. Suspect ships flies around “solo”. But once someone engages him then, out of nowhere, appear few bumping ships and 1-2 logis. Then this “solo” warrior gets “solo” kill. Everyone around (including the real victim) takes a notice “EvE is never fair and what you see is just small part of what there is”. Returning to your example. These guys might have seen something like this or was killed by these “solo” warriors and know that you can never be sure. Now: PvP knowledge and experience. Your ship might not be the supercarrier and imba-pirate ship but they have no ideas what it can do. And they have all the reasons to believe that you wouldn’t be in there attacking them if you see any risk. And if they engage and provide you with “fun” then, again, everyone knows: once you give kills you are marked and will have visitors forever. So the most reasonable thing would be evade. But you say “they could kill me”? So you will return couple minutes later and continue demanding their attention? “Denying the fun” is pretty known strategy and it’s nothing carebearish. Sitting in station and talking ■■■■ in local they have wasted your time too. Win/Win. Lose/Lose rather but again it’s better than give you easy Win. Simple isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/162 "2020-06-06T21:14:36Z")
im a solo warrior no quotes needed ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/163 "2020-06-06T21:16:04Z")
Everyone is arguing but you all have the same point. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/164 "2020-06-06T21:16:37Z")
i lost my eye in the war donate me some isk ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178/165 "2020-06-06T21:57:33Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > Well… > First thing you do is to ask them to have an experience in PvP. Which they didn’t have. And how do you suppose people get that experience? You know what I did on my second day in the game? I took my Thorax into a nearby low-sec and tried to attack a flashy sniping Apocalypse (back then, low-sec piracy mostly consisted of sniping at gates). I failed miserably, but I didn’t lose my ship, and my friend came and scared the pirate away with his Enyo after I started making inhuman screams and gurgling noises on Ventrilo. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > Second you ask them to know you and be sure you are not bait. Which they didn’t know. When you have a group of dozens of players, covering nearby systems for intel is trivial. Most players have some kind of neutral alt anyway. Also, even if it _was_ a trap, does losing a few ■■■■-fit Thoraxes and Caracals matter _anyway_? They didn’t engage me not because they couldn’t afford to replace a \<10m ISK ship, but because they considered PvP to be evil, sociopathic griefing. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > For example: i’ve seen it many times in Dodixie. Suspect ships flies around “solo”. But once someone engages him then, out of nowhere, appear few bumping ships and 1-2 logis. Then this “solo” warrior gets “solo” kill. Everyone around (including the real victim) takes a notice “EvE is never fair and what you see is just small part of what there is”. You’re describing a completely different situation. I would never call a person a carebear just because they don’t go around shooting every suspect-flagged player they see. But when a 3-man corporation declares war on a 120-man corporation, and the latter refuses to do _anything_ but whine in local, smack-talk and insult you, and file petitions against you, that’s completely different. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > Returning to your example. These guys might have seen something like this or was killed by these “solo” warriors and know that you can never be sure. Now: PvP knowledge and experience. Your ship might not be the supercarrier and imba-pirate ship but they have no ideas what it can do. They can scan my ship with a neutral alt if they want to know what it can do. There is literally no defense against that. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > And they have all the reasons to believe that you wouldn’t be in there attacking them if you see any risk. And if they engage and provide you with “fun” then, again, everyone knows: once you give kills you are marked and will have visitors forever. So the most reasonable thing would be evade. You should engage with the intent to _win_. Once you show that you are a hard target, the only way other players will mark you is as a hard target that is to be avoided. That is _exactly_ why carebear corporations get constant hostilities against them, and corporations like my own get _none_. You don’t become a hard target by crying and whining, and never practicing and experimenting to up your game. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > But you say “they could kill me”? So you will return couple minutes later and continue demanding their attention? “Denying the fun” is pretty known strategy and it’s nothing carebearish. Sitting in station and talking ■■■■ in local they have wasted your time too. Win/Win. Lose/Lose rather but again it’s better than give you easy Win. They can, and have. What do you think I would do if a group fights back and either kills me, or wastes my time by camping me in? Do you think I’ll come back and try again instantly, or go after one of many _other_ targets who will be much easier to defeat? I’m sorry man, but everything you say is wrong, because it’s rooted in misconceptions about why good players are good, and bad players are bad. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/triglavian-victory/244178.md?page=9)