# "Trillions of Federation Minmatar would be alienated or perhaps even abandoned by Republic" - Elusenian government-in-exile requests clarification regarding the Republic Government's position towards diaspora in event of possible alliance suspension **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [March 3, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681 "2023-03-03T21:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 8:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/41 "2023-03-13T08:48:14Z")
Well if they’re no longer allies, it’s less likely that people would be able to freely cross the border for family or business reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/42 "2023-03-13T15:25:58Z")
> [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](#): > > I’m still looking for anything that suggests Federation Minmatar would somehow be screwed if the Federation and the Republic cease to be allies. Well, you can start by looking at the attitude people like @Sevrailan_Tian_Valirieux there are demonstrating toward the Minmatar people regardless of citizenship. > [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](#): > > There are followers of the Amarrian faith in the Federation. Are they Amarrian? Are they Gallente? If they are not loyal to the Empress first and foremost, they are not following the Amarr faith. Factor that in, and the answer is obvious: they’re seditionists, just waiting for the call to action. It’s one of the reasons the State doesn’t allow the Amarr to proselytize in their space. > [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](#): > > I’m pretty strongly in favor of both peace and self-determination. If I had my way, there would be peace between the State and the Federation. I agree. Heck, I’d like there to be real and lasting peace between the Empire and everyone else, too. But while the Empire maintains a divine mandate to subjugate literally all of humanity, _they_ remain the ones making that peace impossible. Someone aiming a gun at you and saying ‘don’t worry, I swear I won’t shoot’ but refusing to put the gun _down_… isn’t peace. ---
**Author:** ![Ilyan\_Valtovist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ilyan_valtovist/32/461710_2.png) [@Ilyan\_Valtovist](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ilyan_Valtovist)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/43 "2023-03-13T15:47:36Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Someone aiming a gun at you and saying ‘don’t worry, I swear I won’t shoot’ but refusing to put the gun _down_… isn’t peace. It _might_ be. That depends on any guns you may or not be holding, or utterances you’ve made in the recent past. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2023, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/44 "2023-03-13T18:17:24Z")
> [@Ilyan\_Valtovist](#): > > It _might_ be. That depends on any guns you may or not be holding, or utterances you’ve made in the recent past. No, it doesn’t. Mutual threat is not peace. It is simply waiting for the initiation of _physical_ hostilities. ---
**Author:** ![Jesoph\_Swolin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesoph_swolin/32/383423_2.png) [@Jesoph\_Swolin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesoph_Swolin)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 6:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/45 "2023-03-14T06:14:08Z")
> [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > A day will come, Jesoph Swolin, when things for you too will not be black and white, when loyalties and duties will not be clearcut and pull all in the same direction. To a degree, that day has already come. Granted, the incident was not as severe as what some other Capsuleers have experienced. Even so, without it, I would still be where I began. > [@Arrendis](#): > > This way lies madness. Of course they are to be judged for what _they_ chose to do. If your commanding officer orders you to go and kill the Sanmatar, that order is illegal, and you are _obligated_ to refuse to follow it, as you are to refuse to follow any immoral or illegal order. You sound like a Sarumite when you insist otherwise. > > You can choose to obey, or you can choose to disobey. You will _always_ be judged for those choices, no matter what they are. And it will be _right_ that you are. ‘I was ordered’ does not absolve someone of their responsibility to chart a moral course. It only means others _share_ the blame for your actions. The choice those Feds made was to serve in the Federal Navy. The choice those Matari made was to serve in the Republic Fleet. They were not the players who moved pieces on the board that day, and you do not achieve anything by objecting once you’re already in a foreign system and all hands are called to battlestations. It is true that there may be orders that contradict tradition or legislation, and that is a different matter entirely. When it comes to that particular dilemma I would say that tradition outweighs the others, but you do not always have the choice of doing what you feel like when the rest of the crew depends on you. > [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](#): > > I _did_ tell the fleet they can leave if they think they cannot follow through, and _they chose to stay_. And that was their call, too, and it is not mine to diminish that choice. Capsuleers can cut off their connection to their fleet and warp off whenever they want to. Hands on a baseliner ship can not do this. Their fates are tied to their ships, and their fellow crewmen. > [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](#): > > I’m simply enjoying the spectacle of this Swolin fellow trying to lecture Elsebeth Rhiannon. Unfortunately I must dispel that enjoyment, as I am not lecturing her. I am discussing a matter with her. Lecturing her would go against tradition. > [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](#): > > Colelie was a blight. It shattered loyalties, friendships, and - oh yes - flesh. Those who were there and survived have had to come to terms with what took place on that day. Those who have lost friends and loved ones at Colelie have to live on without them, and somehow move on. The fallout from that “reasonable response” continue to echo down through the years. The only two things that made Colelie different was that it was a purely symbolic action, directed against an ally. On a personal level, I might consider that dishonourable. I might also consider it a waste of good men. However, to the person who had the authority to make the decision, and made it, it appeared a reasonable response. And thus it went ahead. Time will tell whether they will ever be confronted with the consequences of that decision. Beyond those two distinctions, it was just another case of servicemen paying the price for a failure to reach a consensus with words. > [@Valerie\_Valate](#): > > The bombardiers on the fleet above Starkman Prime were also just “following orders” when they laid in the aim points and began the firing sequence on their space to surface siege lasers. They were given their orders, and they carried them out. I do not blame them for that. I blame those who issued the order, and the society that produced such leaders. That culture, rather than the individual servicemen, is why I know that my people will never be safe as long as their people have the capability to commit such acts, and the theological viewpoint to justify them. > [@Sevrailan\_Tian\_Valirieux](#): > > I for one am glad that both the Federation and the Empire were able to reach a mutual understanding in regards to respecting our common borders while we’re both confronted by the security challenges presented by our respective rebel territories. How about you come over to Dammalin so we can discover the security challenge my foot poses to your ass? > [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](#): > > I’m pretty strongly in favor of both peace and self-determination. Approximately the only thing we have in common. ---
**Author:** ![Ilyan\_Valtovist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ilyan_valtovist/32/461710_2.png) [@Ilyan\_Valtovist](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ilyan_Valtovist)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/46 "2023-03-14T09:08:51Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > No, it doesn’t. Mutual threat is not peace. It is simply waiting for the initiation of _physical_ hostilities. Mutual threat is an excellent way to _secure_ peace. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2023, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/47 "2023-03-14T14:24:42Z")
> [@Jesoph\_Swolin](#): > > The choice those Feds made was to serve in the Federal Navy. The choice those Matari made was to serve in the Republic Fleet. That was only _one_ of the choices made. You do not sacrifice your agency, nor your _responsibility_, after making that choice. > [@Jesoph\_Swolin](#): > > you do not always have the choice of doing what you feel like when the rest of the crew depends on you. You absolutely do. The lives of your crew are, in the end, one of the factors you must weigh when _making_ your choices… but you still _have_ them. > [@Jesoph\_Swolin](#): > > They were given their orders, and they carried them out. I do not blame them for that. I blame those who issued the order, and the society that produced such leaders. The men who carried out the order bear as much responsibility as the one who gave it. You cannot absolve anyone of responsibility by reducing them to being nothing more than a drone, an automaton. I, for one, will not adopt the Amarr tendency to see others at less than human. > [@Ilyan\_Valtovist](#): > > Mutual threat is an excellent way to _secure_ peace. No, it is only a means to attempt to buy time in which peace can take hold. And it usually fails. ---
**Author:** ![Jesoph\_Swolin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesoph_swolin/32/383423_2.png) [@Jesoph\_Swolin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesoph_Swolin)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 9:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/48 "2023-03-15T09:26:26Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > That was only _one_ of the choices made. You do not sacrifice your agency, nor your _responsibility_, after making that choice. I would hope one does not sacrifice their agency. It is required to function as a part of a crew, after all. One’s responsibility in the heat of the moment is to execute the assigned tasks competently. > [@Arrendis](#): > > You absolutely do. The lives of your crew are, in the end, one of the factors you must weigh when _making_ your choices… but you still _have_ them. The capsuleer perspective is not relevant to this discussion. > [@Arrendis](#): > > The men who carried out the order bear as much responsibility as the one who gave it. You cannot absolve anyone of responsibility by reducing them to being nothing more than a drone, an automaton. I, for one, will not adopt the Amarr tendency to see others at less than human. No, If the commanding officer calls all hands to battlestations, you go to where you are supposed to be, and you carry out the task you’ve spent the past few years training for during drills. If a person can not do that due to becoming philosophical under fire they should not be on a warship to start with. Because that makes them a liability to the rest of the crew, and to the ship. At worst you cause a problem and everyone sucks vacuum. At best you sit the rest of the deployment out in the brig until the ship returns to where it’s task force is staging from. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/49 "2023-03-15T10:27:55Z")
I’m wondering, Jesoph, if your stance here has any room for an officer to refuse an order and citing the appropriate law, relieve the captain of command. Admittedly this is a more difficult question in the age of capsule warships, whether those be independent or state naval capsuleers. Is your stance really that officers and crew must obey all orders, and are thus damned at the whim of the ships captain ? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/50 "2023-03-15T16:06:32Z")
> [@Jesoph\_Swolin](#): > > The capsuleer perspective is not relevant to this discussion. That has nothing to do with being a capsuleer. If they’re not sacrificing their agency, then they still bear responsibility for their decisions. The lives of the crew are one of the factors a ship’s baseliner officers and captain must take into consideration, but they _still_ have a choice. > [@Jesoph\_Swolin](#): > > No, If the commanding officer calls all hands to battlestations, you go to where you are supposed to be, and you carry out the task you’ve spent the past few years training for during drills. For the rated crew, there’s some merit to this, but for the officer cadre on the ship? No, not at all. Part of their _job_ is to protect against someone higher up issuing illegal or immoral orders. And if you don’t understand _that_, you have no business _running_ a ship. ---
**Author:** ![Shintoko\_Akahoshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shintoko_akahoshi/32/362016_2.png) [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shintoko_Akahoshi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/51 "2023-03-15T17:49:05Z")
I suspect the unspoken thing in Swolin’s arguments is that he’s in _favor_ of Colelie. He’s _pleased_ that the Republic fired on an ally. He thinks all those deaths are _just_. I suspect that if an order came down that he felt was truly _wrong_, he would change his tune. ---
**Author:** ![Shintoko\_Akahoshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shintoko_akahoshi/32/362016_2.png) [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shintoko_Akahoshi)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/52 "2023-03-15T18:17:05Z")
I don’t think you can look at Vallrieux and say that he speaks for most people in the Federation. And I get what you’re saying about the Empire. I really do. For myself, a big step on my path from angry young woman to _less_ angry older woman was letting myself be okay with the idea that the people living within a nation aren’t necessarily responsible for the things that nation does. I’ve always been something of a postnationalist, and I think that makes it easier, too. Instead of bashing my head against the wall that is “The Federation” or “The State,” I can just deal with _people_. Meaningful reunification of the Federation and the State - one that doesn’t see one nation taking over the other, but instead sees both nations coming together to make something grander - is a long game. I don’t expect to see it in my lifetime. It doesn’t mean that it’s not worth working for, however. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/53 "2023-03-15T21:48:48Z")
> [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](#): > > I don’t think you can look at Vallrieux and say that he speaks for most people in the Federation. He doesn’t need to speak for _most_ people in the Federation. Most people in the Federation didn’t kill Karin Midular, after all. It doesn’t take a majority to be a threat. > [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](#): > > the people living within a nation aren’t necessarily responsible for the things that nation does Except that’s exactly the premise of Democracy, isn’t it? That when the people don’t support what the government is doing, they can change the government to better reflect the agenda they _do_ support? By extension, then… if they stay the course, that’s them taking responsibility for _not_ changing their government, no? > [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](#): > > Meaningful reunification of the Federation and the State - one that doesn’t see one nation taking over the other, but instead sees both nations coming together to make something grander - is a long game. I don’t expect to see it in my lifetime. It doesn’t mean that it’s not worth working for, however. Why? If the Caldari don’t want to be part of the Federation, then why is unification anything they should see as desirable? ---
**Author:** ![Shintoko\_Akahoshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shintoko_akahoshi/32/362016_2.png) [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shintoko_Akahoshi)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 5:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/54 "2023-03-16T05:57:41Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > If the Caldari don’t want to be part of the Federation, then why is unification anything they should see as desirable? I don’t want the State to be absorbed into the Federation. There’s a lot of b\*\*\*\*\*\*t in the history of the Federation and the State, and you could make an argument that both nations are the misshapen result of a war that never should have happened. Someday, perhaps, we’ll sit down and talk about that first thing you said, about most people in the Federation not killing Midular. But not here, and not today. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 12:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/55 "2023-03-16T12:51:21Z")
That’s fine. I’m just pointing out that you said you didn’t see anything that suggests Minmatar in the Fed would get screwed—that doesn’t need a majority, it only needs angry people willing to commit violence. ---
**Author:** ![Shintoko\_Akahoshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shintoko_akahoshi/32/362016_2.png) [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shintoko_Akahoshi)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/56 "2023-03-16T17:54:19Z")
I was paraphrasing the OP, who’s saying that Federation Minmatar would be alienated _by the Republic_ if we ceased to be allies. As in “Republic tribes would abandon them” or “The Republic would consider them traitors” or something of the sort. It’s why Inhonores was asking for clarification from the _Republic_. I personally don’t see the loss of the alliance leading to any such thing, hence my statement. But I _am_ curious to see what, if any, response the Republic might offer to him. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/57 "2023-03-16T18:27:41Z")
The Republic isn’t going to offer any response to the agitation of any capsuleer, either for or against their interests. Except as it concerns serving their purposes in the FW arenas, they’d prefer we all just stop existing, thanks. As a general principle, though… if we haven’t stopped the liberation raids the Amarr continue to whine about, I doubt very much we’ll abandon people we don’t have to break any laws to help. ---
**Author:** ![Sevrailan\_Tian\_Valirieux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sevrailan_tian_valirieux/32/360697_2.png) [@Sevrailan\_Tian\_Valirieux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sevrailan_Tian_Valirieux)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2023, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/58 "2023-03-16T20:14:36Z")
I don’t think Minmatar in the Federation will require any saving. They’re always free to leave and go back to where they came from at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Shintoko\_Akahoshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shintoko_akahoshi/32/362016_2.png) [@Shintoko\_Akahoshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shintoko_Akahoshi)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/59 "2023-03-17T00:14:07Z")
It didn’t end well for the U-Nats the first time around, you know, Valirieux… ---
**Author:** ![Sevrailan\_Tian\_Valirieux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sevrailan_tian_valirieux/32/360697_2.png) [@Sevrailan\_Tian\_Valirieux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sevrailan_Tian_Valirieux)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681/60 "2023-03-17T03:59:45Z")
I don’t consider myself reactionary enough for Ultranationalist politics personally. U-nats are a goofy bunch to me. Idiots yes, but occasionally even idiots can be made to be useful. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trillions-of-federation-minmatar-would-be-alienated-or-perhaps-even-abandoned-by-republic-elusenian-government-in-exile-requests-clarification-regarding-the-republic-governments-position-towards-diaspora-in-event-of-possible-alliance-suspension/397681.md?page=4)