# Trying to figure out if I should continue playing EVE **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 21, 2023, 7:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972 "2023-03-21T19:24:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/81 "2023-03-23T16:57:06Z")
What are you gonna do? Make an alpha friendly t1 fit and send someone else to shoot at me? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/82 "2023-03-23T21:52:19Z")
They won’t do ■■■■. Goons/Initiative/PH/Test are some of the biggest cowards in the game. When I hunt them like the mangy dogs they are, their regular response is that I should “come down to where they live” so that I can “engage them in _ **REAL** _ PvP.” Which, ironically, consists of me sitting with a thumb up my ass for 3 hours while they put together an 80-man gang _with capital support on standby_ for a “GF” with a single cruiser. These people are a joke. Take them out of the pack, and they start mewling like kittens in the rain. There’s a specific personality involved with being completely unwilling to do anything outside of a large group. It reminds me of the Eloi from The Time Machine. When these people start talking about how they play the way they play because _their_ conflicts matter and are significant, it can be safely laughed off as a blatant, laughable attempt at framing their fear and lack of individual thought and initiative as positive traits. Every single one of them seems to have a Napoleon complex for some reason; maybe like simply attracts like? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/83 "2023-03-23T22:16:31Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > What are you gonna do? Why should I _do_ anything? You’re the one who seems all butthurt and bent out of shape over not being able to form an original thought. Even now all you’ve got is ‘Oh _yeah_!?!? FITE MEH!’ Which, y’know… boring AF, and about as trite and hackneyed as it gets. I mean, you could at least try mixing up your style. Maybe try throwing some iambic pentameter about for funsies. That’s still pretty old fashioned, after all. Not like you’d have to try free verse. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Goons/Initiative/PH/Test are some of the biggest cowards in the game. Says the person who still doesn’t risk anything that can’t be easily replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/84 "2023-03-23T22:17:01Z")
You seem really unhappy. I’m sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/85 "2023-03-23T22:38:18Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Says the person who still doesn’t risk anything that can’t be easily replaced. What an utterly asinine and nonsensical argument. The debate isn’t about the monetary value of the items being risked, but about the ability to tolerate specific kinds of risk. You seem to be under the impression that putting a super-cap on the field somehow makes you “brave.” It _doesn’t_; your risks are _very often_ group-funded and group-replaced. Even if on the _individual level_ you can say that you pay for everything out of pocket, that’s not the reality for the _average_ null-sec member. Also, you’re completely ignoring the concept of proportionality. When you’re risking a capital ship in a fight, that’s backed up by the ability to farm massive amounts of money in your off time. I don’t have the same opportunity to grind out massive amounts of ISK. If I lose a billion-ISK ship in a war, or my war HQ gets taken down, the raw amount might be smaller, but my relative, proportional loss as a function of my income potential is actually much greater than yours when you welp a 10-billion FAX on an unfavorable fleet engagement. But money isn’t everything, and means much less compared to reputation. And the reputation of players like _you_ is that of needing a capital gang on standby to deal with random roamers, and running away from war target Ventures sitting “AFK” on gates. No amount of money is going to fix _that_ kind of shame. ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 10:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/86 "2023-03-23T22:42:36Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/0/f/0fe0c06bfef542e2022c02810fb4d80547275638.jpeg) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/5/0/50780cf6db1e5315ff3f649cfce8a7b3e22da6b3.gif) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/b/6/bb67ca51d9588d39ef3bc56855c19ece999d8ed0.jpeg) ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/a/2/a25c5fecc6b7bb42e6e7e19867a2d1f61ee2eea7.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/87 "2023-03-23T22:43:17Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The debate isn’t about the monetary value of the items being risked, but about the ability to tolerate specific kinds of risk. No, see, you keep calling people ‘cowards’. The issue isn’t about money, it’s about whether or not what you’re risking is actually _risking_ anything. Whatever you put at risk, can you get another? Easily? Then it’s not really much of a risk, is it? And if it’s not really a risk, then where’s the bravery? > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > But money isn’t everything, and means much less compared to reputation. Money isn’t _anything_. ISK is infinitely replaceable. And reputation? Reputation is a million different things to a thousand different people. And what _you_ value for reputation, others find completely meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/88 "2023-03-23T22:44:07Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > You seem really unhappy. Well, that’s fine. You’re allowed to be wrong. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/89 "2023-03-23T22:44:31Z")
Typing a smile face doesn’t change reality. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/90 "2023-03-23T23:04:54Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Reputation is a million different things to a thousand different people. And what _you_ value for reputation, others find completely meaningless. Haha, no. Not in _EVE_ it’s not. Everyone in EVE wants to brag about being a big-shot fearsome and powerful spaceship admiral, even those who don’t touch PvP activities with a 100-kilometer laser beam. People who are EVE players brag about playing a “tough PvP game” in an attempt to garner respect as elite gamers on various forums, even though in EVE they live meek lives as high-sec carebears. When I sat in those carebear corporations, I observed members arguing about whose ship would win in a fight (though it was always words, and never an actual duel to determine a winner). No one’s bragging about how high their mining yield is, how many Guristas NPCs they kill every day, or how many production lines they’re running at the same time. The desire to be acknowledged as a stronger, superior player is ubiquitous, even among people who don’t compete. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/91 "2023-03-23T23:07:04Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Haha, no. Not in _EVE_ it’s not. Yup. Even in EVE. I know players whose personal point of pride _and_ reputation lies in the fact that they’ve never even fitted an offensive module or drone. I’ll even give you a name, so you can verify it yourself: @Riever_Geist There are, to paraphrase Billy Shakes, more motives in New Eden than are dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio. But I do note you’re not addressing the _other_ half of that response. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/92 "2023-03-23T23:08:42Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > But I do note you’re not addressing the _other_ half of that response. It was addressed in the previous post. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/93 "2023-03-23T23:10:02Z")
It was not. You went on a rant about money, but the point isn’t about money. It’s about _risk_. If you can easily replace whatever’s lost, what is actually being _risked_? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/94 "2023-03-23T23:10:40Z")
It was already explained, in the third paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/95 "2023-03-23T23:18:48Z")
It was not. You’re still on _money_ there. I’m not talking about Nids or Nags or Hels or even Rags. I’m talking about things being _hard to replace_. If I lose a 100bn ISK titan, that’s easy to replace. It’s nothing. It means nothing. Now, make it something you can’t ever get back. Make it _your first battleship_. Doesn’t matter what it is, doesn’t matter how much it costs. You can’t replace it. _That’s_ risk. No matter if you buy another, it won’t be your first. It won’t be something _special_. So where’s the risk? I’ve got a hurricane in Perimeter that’s got Large Salvage Rigs on it. You can’t replace that. And yeah, I’ve put it at risk in j-space, salvaging under enemy fire because my little 10 man corp needed to recover our scraps, needed to recover absolutely everything we could from every loss, living out of a tower in a C4. A hurricane? A _Salvager_ ship? Inexpensive as hell. _That_ 'cane with its rigs? Irreplaceable, but still used, still put in danger. See the difference yet? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/96 "2023-03-23T23:33:10Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > It was not. You’re still on _money_ there. > > I’m not talking about Nids or Nags or Hels or even Rags. I’m talking about things being _hard to replace_. Things are replaced with money. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Now, make it something you can’t ever get back. Make it _your first battleship_. Doesn’t matter what it is, doesn’t matter how much it costs. You can’t replace it. _That’s_ risk. No matter if you buy another, it won’t be your first. It won’t be something _special_. Completely asinine and irrelevant. Things have an objective value as determined by the market (which is full of subjective viewpoints, but the _values themselves_ are objective). Demanding additional respect because the Rifter you’re bravely flying into battle was _allegedly_ blessed by the Space Pope is an utterly laughable request. _No one cares_ that you think your Rifter is worth fifty billion ISK; they just see a 400,000-ISK kill mail. You’re really reaching for straws with this tangent, and I don’t see the point, especially since your initial arguments dealt with monetary value. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/97 "2023-03-23T23:35:54Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > If I lose a 100bn ISK titan, that’s easy to replace. It’s nothing. It means nothing. Sounds like cringe bluster to me. Undock your titan, and put your money where your mouth is? Oh wait, you don’t even play the game anymore… ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 11:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/98 "2023-03-23T23:37:22Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > your initial arguments dealt with monetary value. No, they dealt with difficulty to replace. The issue wasn’t ‘Moloks are expensive’, the issue was ‘Moloks are hard to replace’. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Things have an objective value as determined by the market (which is full of subjective viewpoints, but the _values themselves_ are objective). Demanding additional respect because the Rifter you’re bravely flying into battle was _allegedly_ blessed by the Space Pope is an utterly laughable request. _No one cares_ that you think your Rifter is worth fifty billion ISK; they just see a 400,000-ISK kill mail. Well, since this is a totally made-up scenario you’ve conjured, ‘You’ presumably care. It has value _to you_. And since you’re the one who has to decide if the engagement is worth the potential _risk_, the _only_ value that actually matters is the subjective value _to you_. That’s it. Which means your argument comes down to ‘there is no risk because nothing is really difficult to replace’. But if there’s no risk, there’s no bravery, because you have nothing to _lose_. So you’re calling people ‘cowards’ for hazarding no less _risk_ than you yourself hazard. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/99 "2023-03-23T23:57:00Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Which means your argument comes down to ‘there is no risk because nothing is really difficult to replace’. I don’t know where you’re getting that from. Of _course_ stuff can be difficult to replace. Just because my loss is one billion ISK while yours is ten billion ISK doesn’t mean my loss is more easy to replace; it just means that you operate within a different cardinality of income potential by chain-grinding null-sec content. > [@Arrendis](#): > > So you’re calling people ‘cowards’ for hazarding no less _risk_ than you yourself hazard. No, I’m calling people cowards because they do stuff like tell their enemies to come to their territory where they’ll blob them with unwinnable odds, or run away from/not make an attempt to take down targets even when the targets are flying inferior ships, because of the uncertainty of the engagement that can’t be controlled by dumping N+1 on top of it as per standard protocol. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2023, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972/100 "2023-03-24T00:14:38Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I don’t know where you’re getting that from. Of _course_ stuff can be difficult to replace. Just because my loss is one billion ISK while yours is ten billion ISK doesn’t mean my loss is more easy to replace; it just means that you operate within a different cardinality of income potential by chain-grinding null-sec content. Except it’s not difficult to replace. It just might be _slow_ to replace. There’s a difference. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > No, I’m calling people cowards because they do stuff like tell their enemies to come to their territory where they’ll blob them with unwinnable odds, or run away from/not make an attempt to take down targets even when the targets are flying inferior ships, because of the uncertainty of the engagement that can’t be controlled by dumping N+1 on top of it as per standard protocol. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Players who _only_ do massive fleet warfare PvP seem to me that they’re actually afraid of combat/losses, and are only willing to accept the risk of dying when they have the benefit of doing so in a group, as a sort of “it’s easier to do it when others are doing it too” psychological crutch, which is a form of cowardice Care to try that ‘why I called them cowards’ again? Since, you know, you originally called them cowards because ‘they’re actually afraid of combat/losses’. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/trying-to-figure-out-if-i-should-continue-playing-eve/399972.md?page=6)