# Uedama anti-gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [May 23, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461 "2020-05-23T18:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/863 "2021-04-14T23:46:43Z")
> [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > First, define bot. > **[Barghest | Mykee Johnson | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/89846413/)** > > Mykee Johnson (MIner Dream Home) lost their Barghest in Scheenins (Verge Vendor). Final Blow by Innocent Blonde (The New Order Gamis Affiliates) flying in a Catalyst. Total Value: 1,382,763,068.50 ISK ---
**Author:** ![Renly\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/renly_rohan/32/402846_2.png) [@Renly\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Renly_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/864 "2021-04-14T23:49:55Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Because that’s literally what “consensual PvP” means: a mechanic where all participants in a PvP encounter must agree to that specific encounter. No it doesn’t. You are confusing “must” with “must have”. You are mixing the definition with an “after the fact” conclusion based on evidence. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Like I said, You didn’t decide. Does non-consensual PVP exist or did people consent at log in (your contention) Decide. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/865 "2021-04-14T23:50:21Z")
Calm down Gnosis miner. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/866 "2021-04-14T23:51:58Z")
> [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > No it doesn’t. I’m sorry that you don’t understand game design but that’s literally what the term “consensual PvP” means in this context. Consensual vs. non-consensual PvP refers to the choice between mechanics where all parties must explicitly opt in to a PvP activity vs. mechanics where one player may initiate a PvP activity without explicit acceptance by the other player(s). Example: EVE’s open-world PvP where any player can initiate an attack at any time vs. a game where the only PvP is in the form of opt-in duels. > Does non-consensual PVP exist or did people consent at log in (your contention) Decide. People smarter than you understand that “you consent by logging in” refers to acceptance that EVE is a PvP game with mechanics that include non-consensual PvP. ---
**Author:** ![Renly\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/renly_rohan/32/402846_2.png) [@Renly\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Renly_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/867 "2021-04-14T23:54:05Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > People smarter than you understand that “you consent by logging in” refers to acceptance that EVE is a PvP game with mechanics that include non-consensual PvP. You are twisting yourself into a nice pretzel trying to insist two mutually exclusive concepts exist side by side. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/868 "2021-04-14T23:55:20Z")
> [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > You are twisting yourself into a nice pretzel trying to insist two mutually exclusive concepts exist side by side People smarter than you understand that “you consent by logging in” refers to acceptance that EVE is a PvP game with mechanics that include non-consensual PvP, and that there is no contradiction because they refer to two independent things. PS: the only reason consent by logging in is mentioned is your pathetic attempt to claim that someone who accepts that EVE is a PvP game can’t possibly argue that EVE has non-consensual PvP because that acceptance is consent. It’s not my fault that you made a terrible argument. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2021, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/869 "2021-04-14T23:56:23Z")
A player may not explicitly consent to PvP, but they implicitly consent by playing the game. Ganking is allowed in Highsec, and everyone in Highsec has implicitly consented to ganking. ---
**Author:** ![Renly\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/renly_rohan/32/402846_2.png) [@Renly\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Renly_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/870 "2021-04-15T00:02:57Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > A player may not explicitly consent to PvP, but they implicitly consent by playing the game. And who said anything about explicit and implicit but you? Nobody hinged anything on that until you just did. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Ganking is allowed in Highsec, By out of game rules, yes. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > and everyone in Highsec has implicitly consented to ganking. So you say, and I might agree, but so many disputing that is proof that there is a clear problem. I could just as easily say you lot implicitly consented to receiving death threats. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/871 "2021-04-15T00:04:08Z")
> [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > By out of game rules, yes. By in-game rules as well. > I could just as easily say you lot implicitly consented to receiving death threats. You could do that, if you feel the need to say profoundly stupid things. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/872 "2021-04-15T00:04:10Z")
What the ■■■■? ---
**Author:** ![Renly\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/renly_rohan/32/402846_2.png) [@Renly\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Renly_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/873 "2021-04-15T00:05:39Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > with mechanics that include non-consensual PvP Look, if you mean “surprise, sudden PVP” then that is what you should say. Its idiotic to say non-consensual PVP exists in a game where logging in equals consent to PVP. FFS ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/874 "2021-04-15T00:06:01Z")
> **[Gnosis | Ridley Rohan | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/65960536/)** > > Ridley Rohan (The Two Percent Tax Corp) lost their Gnosis in Tabbetzur (Metropolis). Final Blow by Paxton Brimstone (OPSEC - Shadow Fighters) flying in a Blackbird. Total Value: 84,631,705.72 ISK Here, we see the real issue. Ridley/Renly implicitly agreed to ganking when he started playing EVE, and then he explicitly consented to it by entering lowsec, where he had to acknowledge a popup confirmation. He knowingly and deliberately tried to steal minerals, with a mining Gnosis, and he is upset because of his own poor decision making. Instead of accepting that HE made a mistake, he has spent years insisting that someone else is to blame for his foolishness. ---
**Author:** ![Renly\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/renly_rohan/32/402846_2.png) [@Renly\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Renly_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/875 "2021-04-15T00:06:57Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > By in-game rules as well. By in game rules you get punished by Concord for hi sec ganking because in game its illegal. Do you even play EVE? ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/876 "2021-04-15T00:08:45Z")
In game, I have outlawed CONCORD. It is a rogue drone system. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/877 "2021-04-15T00:25:03Z")
> [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > Look, if you mean “surprise, sudden PVP” then that is what you should say. Its idiotic to say non-consensual PVP exists in a game where logging in equals consent to PVP. FFS I’m sorry that you don’t understand game design but that’s literally what the term “consensual PvP” means in this context. Consensual vs. non-consensual PvP refers to the choice between mechanics where all parties must explicitly opt in to a PvP activity vs. mechanics where one player may initiate a PvP activity without explicit acceptance by the other player(s). Example: EVE’s open-world PvP where any player can initiate an attack at any time vs. a game where the only PvP is in the form of opt-in duels. > [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > By in game rules you get punished by Concord for hi sec ganking because in game its illegal. By in-game rules the law is that aggression outside of certain limits will result in the loss of your ship. All in-game rules are followed in suicide ganking. A specific act of aggression is committed and the matching response is applied. The only rule being broken is your personal assumption that ganking is bad and should not be possible. ---
**Author:** ![Renly\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/renly_rohan/32/402846_2.png) [@Renly\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Renly_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 1:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/878 "2021-04-15T01:57:53Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > By in-game rules the law is that aggression outside of certain limits will result in the loss of your ship. All in-game rules are followed in suicide ganking. A specific act of aggression is committed and the matching response is applied. The only rule being broken is your personal assumption that ganking is bad and should not be possible. That is the same as saying IRL murder is not against the law, its just when you murder someone you get a jail sentence or get executed. You must be trying to bait me. Not even you believe the crap you are spewing. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > I’m sorry that you don’t understand game design I am sorry that you don’t understand words and basic general concepts. Game design has nothing to do with the difference between non consensual PVP and consensual but surprise attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 2:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/879 "2021-04-15T02:20:23Z")
> [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > That is the same as saying IRL murder is not against the law, its just when you murder someone you get a jail sentence or get executed. Show me the law that says that suicide ganking is illegal, not merely that suicide ganking will result in the destruction of your ship. (You can’t, because EVE has no laws other than the game mechanics and CCP’s out-of-game exploit notifications.) > Game design has nothing to do with the difference between non consensual PVP and consensual but surprise attacks. Game design has everything to do with the difference because “non-consensual PvP” in the context of how PvP works in an MMO refers to PvP that can be initiated by one player without having to have the other player(s) explicitly agree to that specific fight. Your concept of “surprise PvP” has nothing to do with the question of whether or not each participant in a fight must explicitly opt into that fight for it to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Renly\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/renly_rohan/32/402846_2.png) [@Renly\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Renly_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 2:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/880 "2021-04-15T02:30:53Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Show me the law that says that suicide ganking is illegal, not merely that suicide ganking will result in the destruction of your ship. As ever, its hard to tell if you are trolling intentionally or accidentally. Regardless, this sort of complete nonsense should see you removed from this board for being nothing but an irritant. [https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CONCORD](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CONCORD) > Serving as the police force, the long arm of the law, **CONCORD** acts as an unstoppable force of consequence for anyone breaking the law in [high security space](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/System_Security#High_Security). > > It’s important to realize that CONCORD isn’t there to defend you, they are simply there to enforce the consequences of breaking the law. As such, people are able to break the law at any time of their choosing, as long as they are ok with the consequences. > > This distinction is paramount to understanding how EVE works and why [suicide ganking](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Suicide_ganking) is valid game mechanics. What next? Going to ask for Concord’s telephone number so you can ask them for the names of the in game legislators who made the law? What is your major malfunction anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 2:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/881 "2021-04-15T02:33:41Z")
> [@Renly\_Rohan](#): > > [CONCORD - EVE University Wiki](https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/CONCORD) Are you aware that EVE University is a third-party fan site and not official CCP material? Please cite official CCP material including a law that suicide ganking is illegal. (And please cite actual game mechanics, GM statements, etc, not background fiction about the EVE story.) ---
**Author:** ![Renly\_Rohan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/renly_rohan/32/402846_2.png) [@Renly\_Rohan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Renly_Rohan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/882 "2021-04-15T02:38:21Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Are you aware that EVE University is a third-party fan site and not official CCP material? Please cite official CCP material including a law that suicide ganking is illegal. You are completely off the friggen deep end. If you want to hang on to some fringe insane belief that ganking is in game legal because of the lack of an ingame written law or CCP being so creepily pedantic they wrote clearly somewhere that yes indeed, actions that give you a criminal timer and punishment from police forces are in fact, in game illegal, well you just go right ahead and hang on to your utterly nut bar beliefs. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461.md?page=42) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461.md?page=44)