# Uedama anti-gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [May 23, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461 "2020-05-23T18:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1305 "2021-10-21T17:35:49Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > The miner has to be vigilant literally every second they are undocked. They cannot go off and make a coffee, read their emails, make a phone call, or even go for a wee. They are constantly refreshing D Scan, keeping an eye on Local, and so on. Somehow that doesn’t feel like a strong argument at all. It seems to suggest that the balance should be changed to give a chance of survival even when AFK, or not even really playing the game at all (ie. not using all of the mechanics available to them). Or in other words: > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > They only want “the other guys” to have to be actively using all of the mechanics. Not them personally. Explorers need to be constantly vigilant. Wormholers need to be constantly vigilant. Lowsec FW plexers need to be constantly vigilant. PVPers need to be constantly vigilant. Mining in low, null or jspace needs constant vigilance. But somehow it’s unbalanced that highsec miners need to be constantly vigilant? Docking or tethering are mechanics that solve that problem in an instant. On this: > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > It’s nothing to do with a ‘fair fight’ in terms of weapons, armour, shields, etc. Who said it is? ---
**Author:** ![Rocket\_Hellfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rocket_hellfire/32/396905_2.png) [@Rocket\_Hellfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rocket_Hellfire)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 6:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1306 "2021-10-21T18:19:01Z")
> [@QuakeGod](#): > > You do realize that now CODE will simply bring twice the number of ships needed, right? And it will ‘simply’ bring twice the losses and operating costs to CODE. Anti-gankers winning twice. Thanks for confirming that. ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1307 "2021-10-21T18:23:16Z")
we do not care about isk, we care about enforcing the Law. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1308 "2021-10-21T19:12:48Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > That is because it had no relevance at all to what I was talking about, or anything at all for that matter, and my exchange was with another player who I happen to respect. Begone knave. Or it’s true LOL. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > The miner only has to lose vigilance for a few seconds…while the ganker has all the time in the world to look for prey. It most definitely is unbalanced, and is precisely why there are more wildebeast than lions. > > Though personally I would not take the Darwinian comparison too far…as some gankers like to do. Real lions, hyenas, etc, will starve to death if they don’t make a catch. Eve’s version are not really predators in the true sense. They can effectively turn from lions into wildebeast if starvation ever arises. Gankers are not predators but parasites…more akin to a leech than a lion. The miner literally has a system wide radar that never fails. If they are actively playing the game, they’ll spot them as soon as they jump in system. If their smart they aren’t mining in the first belt and they are already partly aligned to a safe or aligned already. See, whats funny is you claim the gankers have all this advantage but the peeps out here getting ganked can barely fit a ship competently. Is that the gankers fault? Also they do ganks for the ISKies, they gank a lot of missioners/abyss runners. It is Darwin. They are culling the weak and the stupid. A dude got ganked in a RNI. Do you know what he had in the mids? Every single kind of bling hardeners. But only hardeners. I’m not even sure how he did missions competently. Honestly, if you get ganked in high sec, you weren’t paying attention. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > The miner has to be vigilant literally every second they are undocked. They cannot go off and make a coffee, read their emails, make a phone call, or even go for a wee. They are constantly refreshing D Scan, keeping an eye on Local, and so on. Or yennoe, they could dock and then do these things. Amazing concept huh? Its almost like they are safe in the station and have to assume greater risk if they leave the keyboard while playing an active game… > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > The ganker has all the time in the world. I’ve watched a video of a solo ganker who scans ships for cargo, etc. He misses a few big kills ( largely because he is doing the video and explaining )…but he doesn’t have to wait long for another chance. He can go off and make a coffee, read his emails, etc, etc, because he really doesn’t have to be vigilant 100% of the time. You realize you can gank the ganker right? The same rules apply to him. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > And that is the huge imbalance. I see gankers mocking and deriding miners and haulers who don’t pay attention…but the irony is that gankers themselves don’t have to pay attention 100% of the time. That is the very nature of opportunistic attack. The very nature of warfare calls for attacking at the time that benefits your forces the most? I don’t think anyone pays attention 100% of the time while playing. And if you get caught slipping, you get caught slipping ROFL. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > They are constantly refreshing D Scan, keeping an eye on Local, and so on. Huh. Almost like when you PvP. Amazing 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1309 "2021-10-21T20:19:48Z")
> [@Aaaarrgg](#): > > do not care about isk, we care about enforcing the Law. A law from an old book , written by a crazed psychopathic murderer who spawned a demon Queen. 😋 Edit : was that about right or a touch too much… ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1310 "2021-10-21T20:32:38Z")
a touch, but the old books are the best ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1311 "2021-10-21T21:12:35Z")
Thats what my granny always tells me. ![ffb32a0aad29b72cf4b2a8ce7b9eb65d5252cc09](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/f/0/4f0c9c6dfef9af327e12a53ec1c800b3ad925823.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1312 "2021-10-22T00:06:05Z")
You keep saying it is ‘PvP’…but in true combat PvP all players have to be alert and aware all the time. The solo ganker in the video I saw can go off and make a coffee and come back 5 minutes later…it is ironically the gankers ( who spend their time moaning about AFK miners ) who have the TIME to be AFK ! That ganker may miss a kill or two but more will show up so he can just wait…even go and make more coffee leaving his ship cloaked. What kind of ‘PvP’ is that ? Contrary to the farcical myth of AFK miners, it is the miner who is actively aware while its the ganker who can spend periods of time AFK. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1313 "2021-10-22T00:31:34Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > true combat PvP Ahh of course the no true scotsman comes out. All PvP is true PvP 😃 > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > it is ironically the gankers ( who spend their time moaning about AFK miners ) who have the TIME to be AFK ! They take the same risk. Literally nothing is stopping you from ganking them too. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > even go and make more coffee leaving his ship cloaked Ok now I know you don’t live in reality. Ain’t no one got a cloak on their cata or thrasher LOL. And you’re gonna say cloaky ships kill miners in low/null/WH right? That ain’t ganking son, thats PvP. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > it is the miner who is actively aware while its the ganker who can spend periods of time AFK. Both can choose to go AFK anytime they want and assume the same risk. Also the miners could hire or have security, or simply BM and then dock up and come back? Son, I can tell you don’t actually follow what gankers actually do in game. Most of the miners they catch are AFK, lazy or stupid. Straight up. Hell, in my exploration of Poinen one night, I found ventures just chilling in the belts. No tank. Not even mining. Just straight hanging there in the void, begging for death. Either their script malfunctioned or they are simply not smart. Competent mining fleets aren’t targeted by gankers. If I was FC of a mining fleet in HS, you darn right I’d pay out some of the take for security forces. They’d watch local and as soon as known gankers jumped in, everyone would dock up. My fleet would be fitted for tank over yield and I’d use skiffs as well so if we do get jumped, we got 5 lights each to focus fire on the gankers. You think a barely tanked cata can hold up to 25 light drones attacking them at once? And they can’t afford to target the drones because they are on a timer and they need to pop the ship before CONCORD comes. Please. Git gud. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 4:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1314 "2021-10-22T04:40:22Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Competent mining fleets aren’t targeted by gankers. If I was FC of a mining fleet in HS, We are thinking of doing a mining op if you want to join, in high sec in a ganker home sys for the lol In ventures ,who ever gets most ore and dies the least gets a prize ☺ ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1315 "2021-10-22T10:58:50Z")
The hecate has no propulsion, it lands on the freighter, close enough? What 3-5 seconds, the freighter will insta warp. The align time is so that he can web and warp off before becoming target practice. When the hecate scout/webber comes through the gate he would spot the sensor boosted cruiser, don’t you think? But then why play smart when you can rely on a bull in a china shop like Githany Red. [Hecate, Hecate fit] Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II Inertial Stabilizers II Damage Control II Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Script Stasis Webifier II [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] [Empty High slot] Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints II Small Low Friction Nozzle Joints II Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Low-grade Nomad Alpha Low-grade Nomad Beta Low-grade Nomad Gamma Low-grade Nomad Delta ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1316 "2021-10-22T11:07:52Z")
I did not talk about warping out to a perch then back to the freighter to give webs in my reply above, which is the best method, though I used to align and used bonused webs as they had the range. If they are actually using their sensor booster before you jump in. Picking up known suicide tackle is easy, but they are not always known and evident and there are so many ships that they can use that spotting them is sometimes hard. Also some warp in their tackle as you jump in. Personally I think the best approach is to wait until the gankers have all gone flashy red then you just pile in through. Without unlimited timer bumping you have a good chance of getting past them. No need to be nasty to Githany Red, she is a good player. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1317 "2021-10-22T12:25:48Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > But then why play smart when you can rely on a bull in a china shop like Githany Red. Thank you nice of you to say , I have been called worse by some , 😊. I I believe I read somewhere once that any police force will end up mirroring the criminals that they fight , so the fault here lies with the gankers . One more point who wants to fly a web ship rather than a fleet that can unleash hellfire and damnation on to criminals and gankers … ---
**Author:** ![Cilla\_Cybin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cilla_cybin/32/292206_2.png) [@Cilla\_Cybin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cilla_Cybin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1318 "2021-10-22T14:40:02Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Most of the miners they catch are AFK, lazy or stupid. Straight up. That is the persistent myth that has to be true or your entire argument collapses. But even a cursory look at zKillboard makes nonsense of your claim. I consistently see mining barges, etc, that DO have added shield. But the miner also has to make a hard choice between that and other necessary items like survey scanner, etc. One ‘can’ get a Procurer, for example, all the way to 80K EHP…but that means foregoing afterburner, survey scanner, etc. I’m looking at one example where a Procurer had shield extenders, reinforcers in all the rigs and in two of the mid slots…not exactly ‘lazy’ or ‘stupid’…but was taken down by no less than 8 gankers…each one only having to do around 2,500 points of damage. Then there’s the claim that surely any alert person would notice 8 gankers ‘creeping up’. But they don’t have to creep up to the asteroid belt. With a bookmark already there, all 8 can warp in directly from a stargate that’s beyond D-Scan range. And D-Scan does not auto-refresh anyway…even if the miner hit D-Scan every few seconds all of this could be missed. Of course the miner should be keeping an eye on Local. But even then, the gankers don’t have to arrive in the region all in one go and make it suspicious. And even the miner being aligned to any escape route doesn’t alter the fact that it takes an agonising length of time for a Procurer to start moving…and those few seconds are all the team of 8 gankers need. So your condescending claims towards miners are largely nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Aaaarrgg](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aaaarrgg/32/395089_2.png) [@Aaaarrgg](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aaaarrgg)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1319 "2021-10-22T19:35:19Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > And even the miner being aligned to any escape route doesn’t alter the fact that it takes an agonising length of time for a Procurer to start moving… if it takes time to get into warp he wasnt aligned ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1320 "2021-10-22T22:22:09Z")
She is confusing ship direction for alignment ready to warp. What I doubt she realizes is that she isn’t even pointing in the right direction as stationary ships are not facing in any direction. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/d/6/cd6fe7c55cd155dc1911fc8cba48e9e28ac7d484.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2021, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1321 "2021-10-22T22:41:25Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > each one only having to do around 2,500 points of damage. Yeah damage on a killmail is associated with raw HP, not effective HP. So “only having to do” doesn’t take into account the resists of the ship. The amount of damage they had to deliver is much higher than the ~20K total damage that the killmail records. Tanking isn’t about making a ship impossible to gank. It’s about filtering out as many possible solo gankers and gank groups as possible, by making the EHP higher than the damage they can deliver; making the EHP high enough that they need perfect application to get the kill; and giving enough time to be able to AB out of optimal, etc. Ultimately though, if it gets to the point where the gankers are on grid and firing, then there’s already been opportunities missed. Though tanking is kind of a losing game in my view. Better to go for max yield and be vigilant enough to avoid gank possibilities to begin with. Can mine more, faster and not spend as much time doing about the most boring activity the game offers. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 1:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1322 "2021-10-23T01:26:30Z")
> [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > That is the persistent myth that has to be true or your entire argument collapses. But even a cursory look at zKillboard makes nonsense of your claim. I consistently see mining barges, etc, that DO have added shield. But the miner also has to make a hard choice between that and other necessary items like survey scanner, etc. One ‘can’ get a Procurer, for example, all the way to 80K EHP…but that means foregoing afterburner, survey scanner, etc. > > I’m looking at one example where a Procurer had shield extenders, reinforcers in all the rigs and in two of the mid slots…not exactly ‘lazy’ or ‘stupid’…but was taken down by no less than 8 gankers…each one only having to do around 2,500 points of damage. > > Then there’s the claim that surely any alert person would notice 8 gankers ‘creeping up’. But they don’t have to creep up to the asteroid belt. With a bookmark already there, all 8 can warp in directly from a stargate that’s beyond D-Scan range. And D-Scan does not auto-refresh anyway…even if the miner hit D-Scan every few seconds all of this could be missed. > > Of course the miner should be keeping an eye on Local. But even then, the gankers don’t have to arrive in the region all in one go and make it suspicious. And even the miner being aligned to any escape route doesn’t alter the fact that it takes an agonising length of time for a Procurer to start moving…and those few seconds are all the team of 8 gankers need. > > So your condescending claims towards miners are largely nonsense. No, it isn’t nonsense. It merely wrecks your whole narrative so I get why you don’t wanna accept it. I like how you skirt around the local thing LOL. They have tons of advance warning if someone is keeping an eye on local and done their work by flagging ganking corps. An AB/survey scanner is def not needed as if you’ve rroffed up enough to let 8 catas get locked on you, you’re already dead ROFL. Miners don’t need a survey scanner. You’re literally hoovering the entire belt if you’re mining right. There is no hard choice. Tank or gank is the question ROFL. They will arrive all at once. Their whole strategy depends on precision and timing. Once they start blapping, the clock is on. So they need to pump out all the DPS they can in the window alloted. Its obv you don’t really play this game or even have witnessed a gank LOL. > [@Cilla\_Cybin](#): > > he fact that it takes an agonising length of time for a Procurer to start moving Yea, the fact that you don’t know how to fix this says it all. Please learn to EVE kthx. > [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Though tanking is kind of a losing game in my view. Better to go for max yield and be vigilant enough to avoid gank possibilities to begin with. Can mine more, faster and not spend as much time doing about the most boring activity the game offers. There is also a certain amount of sense in that, building ship loss into your budget considerations. ---
**Author:** ![Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/duella_cre_vil/32/297348_2.png) [@Duella\_Cre\_Vil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Duella_Cre_Vil)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1323 "2021-10-23T03:30:38Z")
Lol i used to play that game. I should still have 2 chars macro training in my house if the server is still up. I was a murderer. I remember running to town banks for safety XD ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2021, 3:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/1324 "2021-10-23T03:51:26Z")
It was good times. I think my love of EVE is its a spiritual successor to the best parts of that game. Sadly I think the same fate shall befall EVE tho. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461.md?page=64) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461.md?page=66)