# Uedama anti-gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [May 23, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461 "2020-05-23T18:53:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/145 "2020-05-29T09:01:12Z")
It is funny that he accuses me of lying but in fact lies about your views. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 10:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/147 "2020-05-29T10:32:47Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > And I saw him go straight in with insults too. You’re **lying** _again_. I never went straight with insults. What would happen often there is that someone would insult me for telling them things they didn’t want to hear, or the gankers for playing their game, or CCP devs for making such a “stupid” game, or something like that, and I would reply accordingly. The truth is that you and people like you are so toxic that you consider that behaviour acceptable when it’s an AG who does it, but not when someone replies to him/her the same way, and hence you’re not even able to realise it was the one I was insulting who had done it _first_ and that I was doing the same to him precisely to make him realise what he was doing wrong… > [@Dracvlad](#): > > your post there shows your issue, most new AG would post their kills with CONCORD on them and you would point out in an offensive way that it was useless thus getting in a flame war. Again, I always did it the exact same way I did in this very thread. You’re simply outright lying _again_ when you say I didn’t. That you think there is an “issue” at all with what I quoted in my previous post illustrates perfectly well what the issue really is… What invariably happened in the cases that turned into flame wars was that the AG witnessed the ganker fail for some reason and refused to accept that his intervention had nothing to do with that. The AG would take offence for the mere fact of being told something he didn’t like and that he did neither understand nor want to believe, not because I would tell him in any offensive way. That kind of ■■■■■■■■, incredibly common there, was what always caused the totally inappropriate replies I got when pointing out their mistakes and me replying accordingly when it happened… > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I am amused that you still cannot see the issue with that post. What’s amusing, albeit also pathetic, is that you keep saying that but refuse to let everybody else missing it what exactly it is, when you could so easily use that post to **prove** once and for all, for the first time in your EvE life, that there is something I’m wrong about and that you know better, with actual verifiable facts that everybody could check… But no, even when you could so easily use in your favour all the evidence that’s there, you still pretend that everyone missing it should simply take your word that there is _something_ I’m wrong about, but without knowing what exactly it is… And you seem to believe that makes you look smart, or that it improves your “credibility”, or damages mine, or something… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This is an outright lie btw. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > It is funny that he accuses me of lying but in fact lies about your views. Some people have a hard time understanding _sarcasm_ even when it’s obvious, it seems. No surprise they have such a hard time understanding other things too… Sure being so used to lie themselves has something to do it… I’ll just leave this here: > different parts of the brain must work together to understand sarcasm. This sophisticated understanding can be lacking in some people with certain forms of brain damage, dementia and sometimes autism ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/149 "2020-05-29T10:48:37Z")
The main problem, with such personalities showing here and dominating the AG narrative, every coordinated attempt is doomed to fail. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/151 "2020-05-29T11:03:30Z")
That’s what I mean. It just looks like you bought the CODE. propaganda, because what you say is simply wrong. I’ve outlined the blueprint for shutting down hauler ganking in the usual places before. It doesn’t need more effort than what the gankers apply. But maybe this all will be pointless anyway, if the choke points in question will be low or nullsec soon. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/153 "2020-05-29T11:29:11Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > An AG group might be able to save a specific target by basically humping it until the gankers go pick something else, but there’s no way they can offer a counter to the gankers in a broader sense. That’s the big mistake. You are not able to safe a specific target but you can shut down operation in the greater scale. Also, I‘m doing what I‘m saying almost daily (solo, so not 100% effective). But gankers log and dock up when I‘m entering local, regularly. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/154 "2020-05-29T11:32:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’ve seen your conversations in the channels and your posts on this forum and find it hard to believe that you would give feedback without insult or condescension. Condescending yes, insulting not unless the other person had done that **first**. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It wasn’t sarcasm though. LOL. Of course it was. Your inability to understand sarcasm is your problem, not mine… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You were making a claim that I don’t want to change the mechanics. Yes, I made a claim _knowing_ it’s not true, i.e. I made use of _irony_ : > the expression of one’s meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite Of course I know you want to change the mechanics, whether you say explicitly or not. That’s the whole point of all your ranting about suicide ganking in each and every thread, and what I was making fun of because you talk about it all _as if_ there was something special about suicide ganking other than the presence of CONCORD, and then cannot come up with a “solution” because cannot figure what exactly could it be… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You were making a claim that I don’t want to change the mechanics. You may have intended the first line as sarcasm but the rest clearly wasn’t. What rest? This is what I said. There were no more lines after me saying you don’t want to change the game mechanics (which I know you do). What is this rest that “clearly wasn’t sarcasm” that you’re talking about? > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Who is undoubtedly a CODE alt is Lucas, which not only ganks himself, but also claims AG is incapable of being effective and does _not_ , I repeat _not_ , want to change the game mechanics so AG could be more effective. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Are you still trying to claim you’re not frequently insulting people while you claim others are being brain-damaged, demented or autistic when they call out your blatant lies? I’m **not** claiming any of you is brain-damaged, demented or autistic. That’s certainly a possibility to consider given all the evidence, not just because of this particular incident, but I don’t have enough information to know whether that’s actually the case, so I’m **not** making such a claim. Now, **if** it turned out to be the case that you do have any of those problems (which again, I don’t know), then sorry, but no, saying so wouldn’t be insulting, it would be descriptive and would help better understand what’s going on… Also, what blatant lies of mine have you ever spotted. Could you quote just one please? Sure you’re not calling it a lie again what I’ve already _carefully_ explained to you was sarcasm, are you? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I imagine this is your problem a lot of the time. You have too much imagination and simply ignore the facts that don’t fit your narrative, so you may keep believing what you imagine is true. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > When people disagree with you, you can’t accept that and so believe there must be something wrong with them that prevents them from thinking like you, and rather try to see things from their perspective and consider that you may be wrong, you resort to insults. When people disagree with me I just show them the **facts** that prove them wrong. I have and will continue insulting both you and Dracvlad whenever you **lie** about _me_ like **you** do all the time to try to discredit me. I’ve never done that for merely disagreeing with me. You **do** have a mental deficiency that makes you **need** to believe things about me (and in general) that are plain wrong and that many here do know for a fact are wrong, because things simply wouldn’t make sense to you otherwise. **That. Is. A. Mental. Deficiency. You. Do. Have.** ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/155 "2020-05-29T11:52:15Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > You’re **lying** _again_ . Lying, how boring and sad. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > I never went straight with insults. What would happen often there is that someone would insult me for telling them things they didn’t want to hear, or the gankers for playing their game, or CCP devs for making such a “stupid” game, or something like that, and I would reply accordingly. I saw you go straight in with insults. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > The truth is that you and people like you are so toxic that you consider that behaviour acceptable when it’s an AG who does it, but not when someone replies to him/her the same way, and hence you’re not even able to realise it was the one I was insulting who had done it _first_ and that I was doing the same to him precisely to make him realise what he was doing wrong… Again this shows your stupid attitude, when you are trying to develop people to get better you have to be prepared to bite your tongue and be calm rational and patient. You set yourself up as being knowledgeable and wanting to educate people and yet you resort to insults and name calling at the slightest thing. And no it does not make people realise anything, it makes people get even more mad and angry. Your words here prove yet again that you are not up to educating people. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Again, I always did it the exact same way I did in this very thread. You’re simply outright lying _again_ when you say I didn’t. That you think there is an “issue” at all with what I quoted in my previous post illustrates perfectly well what the issue really is… > > What invariably happened in the cases that turned into flame wars was that the AG witnessed the ganker fail for some reason and refused to accept that his intervention had nothing to do with that. The AG would take offence for the mere fact of being told something he didn’t like and that he did neither understand nor want to believe, not because I would tell him in any offensive way. > > That kind of ■■■■■■■■, incredibly common there, was what always caused the totally inappropriate replies I got when pointing out their mistakes and me replying accordingly when it happened… You saw them bragging and wanted to tell them off, you would let a little hot air get to you and get equally upset or even more upset. You are so fragile that you can get annoyed at a rookie bragging about getting on a kill of a ganker. grow up. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > Some people have a hard time understanding _sarcasm_ even when it’s obvious, it seems. No surprise they have such a hard time understanding other things too… Sure being so used to lie themselves has something to do it… > > I’ll just leave this here: So now you are declaring everything you say as sarcasm and going off on some half arsed comment about mental diseases like most other loons on this forum. You are the one with issues, I saw no need to go all ape shite on a noob in the AG chat channel, that is your issue mate, own it. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Every coordinated attempt is doomed to fail regardless of the personalities here. It’s an unbalanced mechanic with little room for innovation and an incredibly tight timescale making escalation impossible. The fact that ganking is so easy and cheap to multibox also create a massive inconsistency in the effort required to scale up. Without a considerable change in the way the mechanics work a reasonable counter is impossible to consistently apply. So spot on. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m sure you have, and I’m sure it was entirely theoretical and can’t be applied in reality. It’s like that every time I see it. Some code supporter comes running along saying “no, AG is easy cos x, y, z” when they have no actual experience doing what they are talking about. They point out a handful of AG attempts that suceeded due to a combination of blind luck and bad gankers and pretend that’s readily achievable. Very much this. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I think some of the confusion comes down to what the aim is. The aim of an AG group isn’t to stop one gank against one specific target, it’s to offer a counter to a gank fleet independently of a specific target. An AG group might be able to save a specific target by basically humping it until the gankers go pick something else, but there’s no way they can offer a counter to the gankers in a broader sense. This, so much this. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Just getting an AG fleet on grid with a target at the start of a gank when the gankers commit is minor miracle in itself. If you’ve got one AG fleet and one gank fleet in a system with multiple gank points and multiple potential targets, those gankers are gonna gank, no matter what you try to do about it. So spot on too. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > That’s the big mistake. You are not able to safe a specific target but you can shut down operation in the greater scale. It depends on who is ganking, stopping a Tornado ganker is easy enough, patrolling the pipe to remove the small fry is easy enough, but against a multi-boxer like Kusion and AE it is really difficult to do that. The only person who has any success is a multi-boxing AG. And even then the cards are stacked against him. The gankers can select the prey they are after and can easily throw the AG players off. > [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > I’m **not** claiming any of you is brain-damaged, demented or autistic. That’s certainly a possibility to consider given all the evidence, not just because of this particular incident, but I don’t have enough information to know whether that’s actually the case, so I’m **not** making such a claim. Yes you are, you would not post such pathetic drivel if that wasn’t your aim. You just cannot handle your vapid immaturity and need to browbeat noob AG players to define your superiority. You are the loser and there is no sarcasm in this statement at all. PS And with that I am off to do more work on my en-suite. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/157 "2020-05-29T12:35:23Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I seriously doubt that. Just follow me around in my patrols. Not all, some adapted to use middlemans. Kusion, was one of my favorite victims early on in September last year. He was begging to me in local to stop (all recorded) 😃 But he uses middlemans and multiple haulers now. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/158 "2020-05-29T12:43:29Z")
At this point in this thread, I have suddenly become more interested in Dracvlad’s en-suite. Having just completed mine ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/159 "2020-05-29T13:02:34Z")
The en-suite is the next thing on my list, it’s currently a hideous shade of Avocado Green that’s straight out of the '70s. I’m nearly finished with the mancave in the garden, it’s got power and water but needs furniture and a work bench. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/160 "2020-05-29T13:43:05Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > > I seriously doubt that. > > Just follow me around in my patrols. Not all, some adapted to use middlemans. > > Kusion, was one of my favorite victims early on in September last year. He was begging to me in local to stop (all recorded) 😃 But he uses middlemans and multiple haulers now. @Lucas_Kell I can confirm that Tipa Riot was doing AG for a period and was effective. I was not involved at the time but was in channel and I saw her interaction with others in the channel and saw some of the results on Zkill. She was doing loot denial at least as far as I could see and was good at it. But as always it is quite easy to counter AG efforts at loot denial with a noob ship scooping via a DST into a freighter. This is one example where the mechanics get it to a point where we cannot disrupt it. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/161 "2020-05-29T14:02:52Z")
Man caves yay!!! Avocado green, I remember them when I lived in the UK, really horrible. I added an ensuite to my main bedroom in 2003/04 but took the advice of a builder to do a Italian shower, so I had a lead basin with coating of course (before people start on me about lead poisoning) and plastic feet and wooden slats, and it has been a pain for years, with the need to clean it and the issues around soap build up and stuff. So I gutted it, and am in the process of putting in a very large shower basin. I also decided to go mad with water proof plater board to tile on, raised the floor, and added a shelf which will be flush with the shower basin. Will look pretty good when finished. > [@Githany\_Red](#): > > At this point in this thread, I have suddenly become more interested in Dracvlad’s en-suite. Having just completed mine Glad to hear it, it is fun to do stuff like this. I have a Villa and it has two levels, and the lower level was a garage and large wasted utility area next to the cave. So I added about 70m2 of office and exercise space. The fun part is that the office is partially below ground so it is very cool in the summer. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/162 "2020-05-29T14:10:24Z")
You have an actual cave? Ideal for wine storage if you have. Alas my “cave” used to be a double length Marley garage, with a pit. Lots of insulation has been used to make it usable all year round, it’s no longer an oven in the summer and a freezer in the winter. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/163 "2020-05-29T14:17:20Z")
It is perfect for wine storage, though I only currently have twenty bottles, though four are Chateau Margeraux , I added some more insulation and it has an exposed heating pipe goes through it to give heating winter so it is kept at a perfect temperature all year round. It is about 4m x 4.1m, gravel flooring. With a solid area for two fridges and a freezer, though the wine is kept away from them. Good job on the man cave, sounds perfect. Having good insulation is key, though my house has walls that are between 40-60cm thick. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/164 "2020-05-29T14:20:52Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Shall I link that DST to you again? That DST wasn’t a ganker, as you have been told several times. The fact that this seems to be the only thing you have to link is itself an indication of how little you have done. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/165 "2020-05-29T14:21:13Z")
It was a Tornado gankers loot scooper, I had already stopped him ganking prior to that. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/166 "2020-05-29T14:21:47Z")
That’s not true, DST pilots don’t gank. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/167 "2020-05-29T14:23:50Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > This is one example where the mechanics get it to a point where we cannot disrupt it. You can, that’s why you need the ninja hauler. For those who use middleman, just be faster and scoop the loot before they can (coordination of two chars on moving the cargo takes way longer than just scooping). That’s why I had a conversation recently with a ganker who complained I’m preventing ganks because while I’m threatening his hauler he can’t gank, and middleman is too risky with all the other ninjas around. True, could watch 4 loot thieves competing on gank loot. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/168 "2020-05-29T14:27:49Z")
Of course, but we have to see where they are ganking and we have to get on them, so we are often struggling to get there in time, and then all you can do is shoot the noob ship that loot scoops and often by the time he pops they have the good stuff. There are a number of very effective ninja loots scoopers in AG and we wanted to expand the number of people doing this. I was happy being the HIC that prevents them from even trying. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461/169 "2020-05-29T14:29:31Z")
We all now where the majority of ganks happen. You need people to stay with the gankers, stalk them. 2-3 groups can already shut down the Sirppala \<-\> Jita pipe. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/uedama-anti-gank/243461.md?page=9)