# Undue loss of security standing due to AoE Point Defense Guns on citadel **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [February 27, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864 "2019-02-27T14:52:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Valentine\_Wiggin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valentine_wiggin/32/122265_2.png) [@Valentine\_Wiggin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valentine_Wiggin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/1 "2019-02-27T14:52:42Z")
> [@Undue security loss for defending my alliance's station](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-security-loss-for-defending-my-alliances-station/142658/13): > > Well, when I mentioned that I mean not having AoE weaponry on the station. Usually with station defense the weaponry is more for supportive actions while actual fleets deliver the bulk of DPS on attacking ships. Still, if that’s something you want to suggest that’s why we have the Council of Stellar Management. [https://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/](https://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/) There’s an assembly hall section of the forum for players to bring topics to the attention of CSM members who could then bring them to th… Dear Council - I believe that the game mechanics punish players for using a module to defend their structure. I agreed to man the guns of our Tatara when fighting for its survival. > **[Tatara | Theran Minerals and Alloys | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/75398589/)** > > (Theran Minerals and Alloys) lost their Tatara in Carrou (Sinq Laison). Final Blow by Elwoood Blues (Black Omega Security) flying in a Jackdaw. Total Value: 11,611,433,350.77 ISK By diligent use of the POINT DEFENSE GUNS I managed to kill off a substantial number of aggressors. However these were not noted as kills - which basically would be fine. What is not fine is that my character took heavy security status loss, despite being “anonymous” to the kills. Can it please be either ? The best version would be that as a player manning these guns you do not take a security hit - the same exempt seems to exist for not getting killmails attributed to the character. In the long run, only throwaway alts or - no one - will be willing to use point defense guns. The loss seems small - but is tied to a considerable hit in ISK and time invested to repair the security status decrease. If you feel there is anything that can be done about this, I d appreciate your comments ! Many thanks in advance ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_Falcone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jerry_falcone/32/167073_2.png) [@Jerry\_Falcone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jerry_Falcone)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/2 "2019-02-27T15:30:44Z")
I know you mean well but dont double post the same topic ---
**Author:** ![Valentine\_Wiggin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valentine_wiggin/32/122265_2.png) [@Valentine\_Wiggin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valentine_Wiggin)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/3 "2019-02-27T15:58:24Z")
How embarassing - I didnt realize. Can I somehow move the other thread here ? Or merge it ? Best Regards ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/4 "2019-02-27T16:15:24Z")
-10! why would it ever need to be positive 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Taloris\_Aldercain](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/taloris_aldercain/32/317529_2.png) [@Taloris\_Aldercain](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Taloris_Aldercain)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/5 "2019-02-27T21:38:50Z")
It looks like the recent dev update regarding the wardec system addresses the neutrals in a war situation, which might have been what you were affected by. > [@Devblog: War, War Sometimes Changes](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/devblog-war-war-sometimes-changes/142879): > > Check out this dev blog for more information on the next stage in the overhaul of the war declaration system! [Read all about it here!](https://www.eveonline.com/article/pnlesq/war-war-sometimes-changes) ---
**Author:** ![Valentine\_Wiggin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valentine_wiggin/32/122265_2.png) [@Valentine\_Wiggin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valentine_Wiggin)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/6 "2019-02-28T14:24:59Z")
lol ! I d share your attitude–but only if the police would do so too when passing through \>0.4 ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/7 "2019-03-01T20:59:54Z")
I’m not sure why you took a security hit - can you explain the scenario? If your fleet was engaging the bad guys, they were either war decced or had suspect timers, right? ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2019, 11:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/8 "2019-03-03T11:44:45Z")
Reading and research is hard. > [@Undue security loss for defending my alliance's station](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-security-loss-for-defending-my-alliances-station/142658): > > I agreed to man the guns of our Tatara when fighting for its survival yesterday. Mostly by diligent use of the POINT DEFENSE GUNS I managed to kill off a substantial number of agressors. However these were not noted as kills - which basically would be fine. What is not fine is that my character took heavy security status loss, despite being “anonymous” to the kills. Actually the loss is so heavy that this character cannot even fullfill its most basic function as a travelling cyno provide… ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/9 "2019-03-03T16:31:06Z")
I read that, and it makes no sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/10 "2019-03-03T16:33:26Z")
I think what happened is that the OP used an Upwell AoE weapon in lowsec and damaged a bunch of neutrals incurring a sec status hit. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/11 "2019-03-03T17:24:58Z")
Okay - if that’s the case, then, well…don’t use the PDS when there are neuts on the grid. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/12 "2019-03-03T17:28:30Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I read that, and it makes no sense to me. Look, a CSM who can’t read properly and doesn’t understand how EvE mechanics work. I’m not defending the OP, as for me this is a non-issue. But seeing your reply shows me the worth of your other contributions. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/13 "2019-03-03T19:02:47Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Look, a CSM who can’t read properly and doesn’t understand how EvE mechanics work. > > I’m not defending the OP, as for me this is a non-issue. But seeing your reply shows me the worth of your other contributions. I asked him for clarification because what he wrote wasn’t clear. I don’t appear to be the only one who didn’t understand what he was trying to say. Feel free to run against me if you think your contributions will be superior. I think we both know you won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/14 "2019-03-03T19:22:58Z")
Lol, indeed, I’m not that stupid, to run for CSM. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/15 "2019-03-03T19:44:44Z")
We both know that’s not the reason. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/16 "2019-03-03T19:51:46Z")
This time you are wrong. It is the reason. We can debate why it would be stupid. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Valentine\_Wiggin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valentine_wiggin/32/122265_2.png) [@Valentine\_Wiggin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valentine_Wiggin)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/17 "2019-05-07T15:59:38Z")
clarification INDEPENDENT of whether the “victims” had a suspect flag or not: This happened in low sec. Some of the parties attacking were not in war dec to us. They didnt care about sec loss or suspect timers. Some of them lost suspect timers due to warping away. They regrouped near the structure defending itself with the PDS Due to the time passing by while regrouping, they lost suspect timer. They came into range. They were killed by the PDS. I manned the station running the PDS. I did not get credit for killing them. However, I got the sec penalty for killing them. This seems unfair. Either get the penalty and the kills accredited. OR no killmail and no security penalty savy ? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/undue-loss-of-security-standing-due-to-aoe-point-defense-guns-on-citadel/142864/18 "2019-08-05T15:59:42Z")
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