# Unplayable--unless your pvp hunting **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 3, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516 "2018-04-03T01:25:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 9:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/103 "2018-04-04T09:18:46Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > The difference between now and then is that intel is not universally the same for everyone any longer. Now, its a bug. Everyone recognizes that Local should not be RNG based on EVE chat servers/services failing. But that doesnt change that if Local was removed/delayed, all any corp needs to do, is watch the gate, with one character. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > a bot-supported intel system in a delayed local universe get their intel from these bots and can continue just like now, while hunters do not have the intel and do not see the bots reporting them Bots are illegal. Furthermore, nothing now or after change prevents an aggressor seating a cloaked alt in a system to provide data to other aggressors. Your arguments are not working. I dont believe you are trolling, or deliberately posting on the side of self-interest, but I dont think you are thinking things through. * * * In a delayed Local intel system, bots cannot provide/access the data they can now. In the current system, gate watching is not required, as every bot can access immediate Local intel anyways, anywhere in the system and react to it. You are contradicting yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/104 "2018-04-04T09:34:47Z")
Thank you for typing it out. Would increased wormhole activity towards nullsec (which has been nerfed by CCP exactly for this reason) not counter this? Or do you believe they would just put in the activity necessary to scan them, scout them and possibly roll them as well? ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/105 "2018-04-04T09:37:21Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Yes, while those ops are running. And the rest of the time these systems and areas are empty. Fewer people in space. No, its not fewer people in space. Its just less in space in the hours the corp doesnt have the people to run their content. There is nothing wrong with running corp supported ops, and there is nothing wrong with risking running your own while corp isnt there to support you. Local delay/removal does not change that at all. Either risk it without corp support, or wait till corp is online to support. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/106 "2018-04-04T09:56:35Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Or do you believe they would just put in the activity necessary to scan them, scout them and possibly roll them as well? In this regard I will only speak for my own group. We roll almost every hole in our pockets so that wormholers need to rage-roll to get an access. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Its just less in space in the hours the corp doesnt have the people to run their content. In other words fewer people in space. Thank you that we established this now conclusively. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I dont believe you are trolling, or deliberately posting on the side of self-interest, but I dont think you are thinking things through. I am not trolling at all. Quite the contrary: I am only interested in content in null sec. However, everyone who argues that local needs to be removed or delayed is not interested in that goal at all. Those people are only interested in their own self-entitled gains and benefits from a system where not everyone has equal access to information any longer. There are no contradictions if you consider everything I type and not just things you want to consider. In a delayed/removed local system, bots on gates can access all the information they need to feed the other bots ratting or mining and active people doing the same with more or less immediate intel from gates. And that even better than now because under the new system with the changed requirements they are on the gates and see what comes through instead of their current behavior of just warping out of their anom. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Bots are illegal. Many things are illegal. The fact that people still use them only shows that illegality means nothing without enforcement of the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 10:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/107 "2018-04-04T10:07:49Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > In this regard I will only speak for my own group. We roll almost every hole in our pockets so that wormholers need to rage-roll to get an access. Sounds like a good approach. There was a thread about someone complaining about bombers bar rage-rolling, and how unfair it was. Do you believe they have a point? The person is most likely speaking for renters, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/108 "2018-04-04T10:09:07Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > In other words fewer people in space. Thank you that we established this now conclusively. No, its not less people in space, just at different hours. If you want to rat/mine solo, when most of corp is offline, go ahead. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > I am only interested in content in null sec. Yes, YOUR content. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Those people are only interested in their own self-entitled gains and benefits from a system where not everyone has equal access to information any longer. Seems that is exactly what you are doing. Removing/delaying Local has the same impact on information for everyone. (Current situation is bugged, as CCP fked up the chat servers) > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > bots on gates can access all the information they need to feed the other bots ratting or mining and active people doing the same with more or less immediate intel from gates Bots are illegal. Furthermore, no, its far simpler for a botter to react to Local intel, than data sent by a secondary advanced bot at a gate that can detect gating in hostiles without Local intel. Also the gate bots cant detect WH intruders. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > The fact that people still use them only shows that illegality means nothing without enforcement of the rules. It also means that changes should be made to impair botting. Removing/delaying Local intel would do that, de facto. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/109 "2018-04-04T10:29:57Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Furthermore, no, its far simpler for a botter to react to Local intel, than data sent by a secondary advanced bot at a gate that can detect gating in hostiles without Local intel. I am not defending anyone with this, simply correcting a misunderstanding. Have standings visible on screen, in space, for every ship. Have software take screenshot at regular interval. Have software scan through the pixelbuffer’s colours. Even an idiot can write code to scan through an array of bytes, this is not in any way “advanced”. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/110 "2018-04-04T10:48:22Z")
> [@Rosov\_Aulmais](#): > > I remembered that in 2012 CCP was still undecided on the matter of bumping. I think you misunderstood it. There was a bug that made possible to activate a mwd several times, thus reaching ludicrous speed and bumping ships out of POS. people using this bug were banned. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > and it details people in space and docked. nope. It makes no difference between a VNI ratting for 20 minutes and 20 ships spending each 1min in system. However the NPC delta helps your know where are ratters. > **[DOTLAN EveMaps: Map: Stain](https://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Stain#npc_delta)** > > DOTLAN EveMaps is the leading online/interactive map/alliance/corporation resource database for Eve Online > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Map data is a completely separate mechanic than Local intel. NOBODY CARES. You completely miss their point here. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > TLDR: “Hunters should only be able to catch AFK players, as now.” and again … > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I don’t understand why you do not get that… Because he never played in null. He’s just making generic statement that are completely out of the point here. > [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Bots are illegal. Bots playing Eve are agaisnt the EULA. Intel bots are not and are widespread. ratting bots are said to be much present, but if you need to spam dscan every 10s to not get dropped they will become more present. If your mechanism encourages bots, then there will be more bots. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/111 "2018-04-04T11:07:54Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > However the NPC delta helps your know where are ratters. Which is what I use. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Because he never played in null. He’s just making generic statement that are completely out of the point here. Well I was trying to explain, but gave up on it. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/112 "2018-04-04T11:12:07Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Have standings visible on screen, in space, for every ship. > Have software take screenshot at regular interval. > Have software scan through the pixelbuffer’s colours. Remove/delay Local, and you remove/delay that bot function. D-scans do not provide any colored data. > [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Even an idiot can write code to scan through an array of bytes, this is not in any way “advanced”. False. Idiots cant do it. Botters are many things, but stupid is not among them. Reading the above, its clear you don’t understand how bots work. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 11:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/113 "2018-04-04T11:49:51Z")
Botters are using bots, not making them. And people who use bot can easily use an already existing script which has OCR and warns you. People who rat usually are in dead end system, so any people coming through the gates will be caught by a cloaked bot on one gate before reaching that dead end. ---
**Author:** ![Luthor\_Ikkala](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/luthor_ikkala/32/41799_2.png) [@Luthor\_Ikkala](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Luthor_Ikkala)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/114 "2018-04-04T12:06:54Z")
If we should have to play with delayed local we need changes how cynos and blops work its an unfair advantage to hunters to get in with a cyno then bridge your bombers in un-noticed. If cyno would have activation timer of lets say 30s and it would be seen in the overwiev that would give active ratters and miners enough time to react. Or another alternative is to limit ships getting through from cyno. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/115 "2018-04-04T12:15:49Z")
> [@Luthor\_Ikkala](#): > > If cyno would have activation timer of lets say 30s and it would be seen in the overwiev that would give active ratters and miners enough time to react. I agree. Iv never agreed with how fast cyno is. Its stupidly fast. Also, Ive never agreed that cloaked ships are d-scan immune. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/116 "2018-04-04T12:42:52Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > Reading the above, its clear you don’t understand how bots work. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA … … okay, matey, sure. : - ) Btw, as far as I can tell, this was about cloaked ships sitting at gates. Ships coming in can have visible standings in space and on the overview, including neutrals when set up correctly. I apologize for it not fitting it into that tiny box of yours, though maybe sometimes you should try checking related boxes. You could learn that there are reasons why many people are having trouble communicating with you. : - ) You may have the last word, so you can make yourself feel better after reading this post. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/117 "2018-04-04T12:52:55Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > … okay, matey, sure. : - ) On a scale of 1-10, 0 being nothing and 10 being everything, how much do you know on how bots operate in EVE? ---
**Author:** ![GoPackGo\_Aurilen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gopackgo_aurilen/32/453007_2.png) [@GoPackGo\_Aurilen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/GoPackGo_Aurilen)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/118 "2018-04-04T13:11:26Z")
Use a gecko like a non bad. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/119 "2018-04-04T14:02:17Z")
Answering this question correctly requires to have perfect knowledge of the knowledge of bot using. Otherwise I can’t affirm which part I don’t know about. So answering this question, the only correct answer is “100%” or “0%”. and being impossible to prove that there does not exist anyone whom I don’t know the bot usage, the only correct answer to your question is actually “0%”. May I point you that your question is completely stupid ? You are trying to force people to say they have no idea of what bots are. I have a question for you : on a scale from -10 to -9, how good is your knowledge of pvp ? ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/120 "2018-04-04T14:08:48Z")
That is, more or less, why I did not bother with responding. The answer is meaningless, the question possibly manipulative and it is just one more proof of how linear and boxed-up his way of thinking is. ---
**Author:** ![Salvos\_Rhoska](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salvos_rhoska/32/14128_2.png) [@Salvos\_Rhoska](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salvos_Rhoska)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/121 "2018-04-04T14:36:48Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > You are trying to force people to say they have no idea of what bots are. False. If someone says 1-10, how then can they have no idea what bots are? (unless they lie) I get your point, but it leads nowhere. Bots are complex, but they arent rocket science. Its not unreasonable to ask someone how much they know about them. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516/122 "2018-04-04T15:06:48Z")
> [@Salvos\_Rhoska](#): > > I get your point, but it leads nowhere. It leads that your question is stupid. It leads to you having no clue about what is the discussion topic, and making false assumption. It leads to you wasting time here. MY time. The thread was starting good and then you made several /facepalm posts. I tried to skip them but you were still present at the end claiming everybody besides you does not have any knowledge of pvp and balance in the game. To the point you are no more ridiculous, you become an annoying off-topic thread infestation. I teach you something : when people discuss, they need to accept that the other is right before asking question or pointing details out. You don’t understand the topic yet you come to say that OP is wrong ? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/unplayable-unless-your-pvp-hunting/67516.md?page=7)