# Update on Security of the Empire **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2018, 12:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657 "2018-12-13T12:51:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 4:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/221 "2018-12-31T04:18:47Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > “proPIEganda” This was so beautiful it brought a glistening tear to my eye. > [@Gaven\_Lok\_ri](#): > > having ideas that Samira Kernher is some sort of prophetic figure Wait wait wait. I’ve seen the idea that Kernher has followers being talked about before, but when you say “prophetic figure,” do you mean that literally, or is this just a corruption of the fanatical enthusiasm in which the disenfranchised often cling to successful images? Asking for me, because I would love to be viewed as a prophetic figure by a group of devoted warriors, so please explain, or I’ll have to ask Kernher to write a how-to guide. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/222 "2018-12-31T04:23:29Z")
And who made them desperate, Aldrith? Who taught us to _hate_ again? ---
**Author:** ![Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aldrith_shutaq/32/378618_2.png) [@Aldrith\_Shutaq](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aldrith_Shutaq)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 4:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/223 "2018-12-31T04:50:22Z")
Everyone who told them the Rite and Empire are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gaven\_Lok\_ri](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gaven_lok_ri/32/293159_2.png) [@Gaven\_Lok\_ri](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gaven_Lok_ri)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 5:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/224 "2018-12-31T05:03:03Z")
I’m pretty sure no one serious considers working within a legal mandate under government oversight to protect Amarr civilians, both free and slave, from gangs of armed criminals to be “terrorism.” ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 5:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/225 "2018-12-31T05:15:00Z")
I’m pretty sure there’s a hell of a lot of free Minmatar who are serious about how wrong you are. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 6:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/226 "2018-12-31T06:44:32Z")
If you don’t mind me asking: At the onset of all of this, when her initial event happened, PIE issued a statement casting her out. At present I don’t have the ability to view her employment history so please correct me if I’m wrong (my memory could be off on this, please excuse me if it is) Wasn’t she enrolled at the time with your auxiliary corporation when this happened? Beside that point, if I’m not mistaken she was under your employ for years prior, yet you couldn’t find any issue? I will be the first to admit I’m probably not the best at internal security but the only spies we’ve had were rooted out within hours of application, not post hire. I’m not questioning your abilities on these things but, well simply put I’m truely surprised it got past your organization. If she was such a threat to your people I just don’t see it slipping through the cracks. Take that as a complement I guess. But it does raise questions on the current situation at hand. It. Doesn’t. Make. Sense. She’s some heretical cult leader and you didn’t even have an incling of it, for years? Please don’t mind my confusion on this one. ---
**Author:** ![Alizabeth\_Vea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alizabeth_vea/32/122884_2.png) [@Alizabeth\_Vea](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alizabeth_Vea)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/227 "2018-12-31T07:00:35Z")
Is this what you think I did, Arrendis? Terrorism? ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/228 "2018-12-31T07:06:35Z")
So, Deitra? What you’re … uh, kind of poking your finger in here is pretty much exactly why the Amarr look at heresy the way they do. Heresy’s something easy to identify and call out when it’s wearing a black robe hemmed in weird spidery red sigils and sticking a sacrificial dagger in Uncle Attir’s heart. But, when it first appears, it’s usually subtler than that, and it’s usually not called, “HERETIC!” It’s usually called your neighbor, or your brother, or your niece. It’s poison wearing the face of a close and dear loved one or friend. And to be clear, a lot of heresies don’t involve ever putting on that robe at all. ---
**Author:** ![Alizabeth\_Vea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alizabeth_vea/32/122884_2.png) [@Alizabeth\_Vea](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alizabeth_Vea)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/229 "2018-12-31T07:29:05Z")
I will also say that sometimes, a revelation or epiphany can have a profound, drastic, and immediate effect. I know someone who went from being a devout blooder, to doubter, to suicide in one day, because of what someone else did. I think it likely that Ms. Kerner has, or had, some preconceptions or ideas regarding the Empire that had to be true for many things in her life to have purpose and meaning. If those ideas became untrue, no matter how long or short it too, then the drastic change is what would be seen. I don’t speak for her; this is just my observation based on others. As for me, there was someone I would die for who managed to turn me into a mortal enemy in the space of a few hours. These things can happen. ---
**Author:** ![Garion\_Avarr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/garion_avarr/32/415302_2.png) [@Garion\_Avarr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Garion_Avarr)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/230 "2018-12-31T07:44:47Z")
> [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Wasn’t she enrolled at the time with your auxiliary corporation when this happened? She was, in fact, not, and had not been for about three weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 8:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/231 "2018-12-31T08:24:07Z")
> [@Gaven\_Lok\_ri](#): > > I’m pretty sure no one serious considers working within a legal mandate under government oversight to protect Amarr civilians, both free and slave, from gangs of armed criminals to be “terrorism.” That depends on the methods of said protection. And as was stated above, if the _realities of slave rebellions_ are too distasteful for you, just pick up your toys and go home. We’ve got this. ---
**Author:** ![Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhara_del_thul/32/486150_2.png) [@Mizhara\_Del\_thul](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhara_Del_thul)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/232 "2018-12-31T09:41:33Z")
> [@Alizabeth\_Vea](#): > > Is this what you think I did, Arrendis? Terrorism? Terrorism can have purpose and depending on the enemy and situation, can even be justified. What you did? It requires an ignorance our kind are incapable of to make it anything short of an atrocity. ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/233 "2018-12-31T09:47:05Z")
> [@Alizabeth\_Vea](#): > > Is this what you think I did, Arrendis? Terrorism? One definition of terrorism is 1) the use of acts of violence 2) to cause fear in a population 3) in an attempt to achieve a political goal. Like you said yourself elsewhere, if stifling a rebellion not done fast and decisively, it might end up not done at all. That is not just because the fast and decisive is more effective in a military sense - it is also because it is more effective in _propaganda_ sense, in convincing _others_ not to _start_ anything. In other words, what you did and what you advocate is the very definition of terrorism. Only if you include in the definition the exclusion clause that terrorism is by definition not something done by legal governments (a definition that _is_ sometimes used), can you argue it is not. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 9:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/234 "2018-12-31T09:50:42Z")
By the powers of Haemothaumaturgy, I call upon the Sefrim to smite Alizabeth and strike her down beyond all chance of resurrection, for her failings to God and Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/235 "2018-12-31T09:54:02Z")
> [@Gaven\_Lok\_ri](#): > > Both groups are needlessly aggressive and their actions have resulted in the unnecessary deaths of many Thebekan civilians. In operations so far, we have also seen a good deal of evidence of armed radicals having used their foreign supplied military equipment to violently conscript peaceful civilians. If you don’t think this is happening from the Amarr side too, have I got news for you. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/236 "2018-12-31T10:08:55Z")
> [@Isha\_Vuld](#): > > What exactly is a “Kernherite radical”? It’s a term used by Theology Council minions to disparage any person following any of Samira’s religious teachings. Samira herself calls them something like Avetatism, as you can see from the chosen name of her corporation, which iirc is in Amarrad, the old dialect of Amarr. The Theology Council are calling this “Kernherism” because it suits their agenda. By personifying it, it characterises it in the minds of many, as a cult-of-personality surrounding Samira, and thusly, associated with the cults-of-personality around such figures as some Sani-Sabik, or other gross heretics, e.g. the “Naupliusism” label, which wasn’t really applied too much on account of it’s pronunciation being a bit tricky. Cults-of-personality also tend to be dismissed as unworthy of any deeper study or analysis. So, by calling it “Kernherism”, the implication is that it will end and be forgotten in the event of Samira’s death. This suits the Theology Council’s objectives. ---
**Author:** ![Samira\_Kernher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/samira_kernher/32/244840_2.png) [@Samira\_Kernher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Samira_Kernher)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/237 "2018-12-31T10:15:15Z")
_Some_ people are calling it that. What the Theology Council may or may not be calling it is not information I’d trust from a blooder. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 10:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/238 "2018-12-31T10:25:24Z")
Oh, yes, of course, it’s just being used by PIE, not the Theology Council. But it’s the same thought pattern and methodology - Suggest it is a personality cult, and people will assume there’s nothing substantial to it. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/239 "2018-12-31T14:05:29Z")
@Aria_Jenneth@Alizabeth_Vea @Gaven_Lok_ri Thank you, that clears it up. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/update-on-security-of-the-empire/126657/240 "2018-12-31T16:04:28Z")
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