# US Senator Introduces Ban on Loot Boxes, "P2W" - NOT A TROLL THREAD! **URL:** \ **Category:** Out Of Pod Experience\ **Created:** [May 8, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782 "2019-05-08T21:37:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 10:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/41 "2019-05-10T10:11:49Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > If you add insults like “shallow thinkers” to your arguments that just makes it look like you have no actual confidence that they are convincing on their own. If you think that’s an insult, ignoting that it in no way or form is changing the rest of what’s written, then you’re making the same stupid mistake like Elena. Everything can potentially be declared an insult despite it actually hitting the nail on the head. Imagine someone calling out a liar for being a liar. Suddenly it’s “insulting” and the rest of the post is being ignored, despite the liar indeed being a liar. But nooooo, that’s a bad thing now! We can’t do that! We can’t call spades spades, because that’s bad. No, ■■■■ that. The end result is that people just ignore each other completely unless they talk/write exactly how the other wants them to, which is an absolute impossibility, thus turning everyone into an ignorant asshole by default. Don’t. Make. That. Mistake. Back on topic: > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > the discussion if someone would sue is how this is designed to “trick” people into spending insane amounts of money on a computer game. Sure, but people didn’t sue ten years ago when the gaming industry started going “psychological” on the players either. People have been heavily manipulated for the last ten+ years and they’re getting manipulated now more than ever, yet because of “gambling” there’s an uproar and I think that’s ridiculous. There should have been an uproar many years ago already, back when games decided to target losers specifically trying to sell them the hero-trope to make them feel good about themselves. There should have been an uproar when the video game industry started deliberately making games easier so people aren’t being confronted with loss/failure, which makes them stop playing. Weirdly enough that did not happen in the 80s and early to mid 90s, because people LOVED challenges! This artificial outrage is ■■■■■■■■. I understand that there’s poor sods who can’t control themselves and I understand that they fit perfectly into the “everyone’s a victim” narrative, but these poor sods have been abused in one way or another for over a decade and no one ■■■■■■■ cared. No one actually gives a ■■■■ about these people. If they did, they wouldn’t try banning loot boxes, they’d try giving these people the help they need. They would try giving them psychological treatment that allows them to exercise better self control. You know, treat the cause instead of the symptom. But no, we’re not having that, because it goes against the “everyone’s a victim” narrative and the ■■■■■■■■ idea that people aren’t responsible for their actions at all, as if we were all just ■■■■■■■ animals. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_dunning_kruger/32/414724_2.png) [@The\_Dunning\_Kruger](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Dunning_Kruger)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/42 "2019-05-10T12:58:55Z")
> [@Jennifer\_Austin](#): > > you really got to learn to do research And you really should learn to use punctuation. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/43 "2019-05-10T21:55:33Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > This artificial outrage is ■■■■■■■■. I understand that there’s poor sods who can’t control themselves and I understand that they fit perfectly into the “everyone’s a victim” narrative, but these poor sods have been abused in one way or another for over a decade and no one ■■■■■■■ cared. I don’t think it has to do with the “everyone’s a victim” narrative but with an industry that went on for decades completely unchecked and unregulated always pushing the limit. The reason this has become political is because enough people are pissed and talking about it that it becomes a topic politicians think they can win voters with. I agree that if anyone was actually interested in helping those people they would actually try to help those people directly. But that is not how things work in politics. And seriously, the game industry basically asked for this so I can’t help but feel some schadenfreude about the whole thing. As you say, this is going on for almost a decade, but they pushed it so far now that even the dumbest people realized that they get played. And sure they are actually the ones creating the problem because they buy that stuff and give even more incentive to push it. I’m actually not sure when I bought the last so called AAA game when it came out. I also stopped paying for EVE because I find the microtransactions on top of a subscription impudent. But CCP and many of their customers think it is fine to double charge and drive the game into a direction that can be even more monetized. And sure one could argue that it’s the consumers fault. And it is. But at some point when the snakeoil seller pushes it over the top a mob forms and drives him out of the town and that is in a way evolution as well. If you play the dirty game of psychological tricks don’t overdo it and piss everyone off or get ready to get your teeth knocked in. ---
**Author:** ![Ian\_Morbius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ian_morbius/32/476592_2.png) [@Ian\_Morbius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ian_Morbius)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/44 "2019-05-10T22:57:26Z")
Wow, Jim kind it under 10 minutes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ronnie\_Rose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ronnie_rose/32/446230_2.png) [@Ronnie\_Rose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ronnie_Rose)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/45 "2019-05-11T23:02:11Z")
You don’t think the European Union is NOT looking at regulating loot boxes in online gaming? It would not be smart for CCP to ban US players. That would be a dumb move because it would likely draw EVE Online to the attention of EU regulators. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2019, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/46 "2019-05-11T23:54:53Z")
Stories being run by BBC focusing on children gambling and gambling in games. Online casinos being the biggest culprits but online gaming is mentioned too. I think the eventual connection of using RL money to get in game money and then use that in game money to gamble is going to made. Because it’s not just the link to RL money that is the issue, it’s that the habit of gambling (or ‘preying on user addiction’) is being pushed onto kids. I don’t think it’s such a stretch to include things like multi-plasmids. If the habit of gambling on them becomes widespread enough, and especially if people feed their habit by buying in game isk with RL money, it’s going to get more and more attention. We’ve had multi-plasmids for a very short while and we already have people like this: > [@CCP fix your abyssal rng](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/ccp-fix-your-abyssal-rng/153458): > > Why is it that I spend 4bil to roll and not even 1 out of 20 is all green. Jesus christ CCP. This may be an interesting read: [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306460318315077?dgcid=author](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0306460318315077?dgcid=author) ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/47 "2019-05-12T00:36:55Z")
Leave it to CCP to find the filthy grey area ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/48 "2019-05-13T08:46:01Z")
Can you please ask a question without double negation … … like a normal person? ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/49 "2019-05-13T08:55:26Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > > one ■■■■■■■ cared. > > I don’t think it has to do with the “everyone’s a victim” narrative but with an industry that went on for decades completely unchecked and unregulated always pushing the limit. Part of the “everyone’s a victim” narrative is the idea that people actually have absolutley no control over themselves at all. This is definitely a part of it, further promoting the idea of people being victims. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > But CCP and many of their customers think it is fine to double charge and drive the game into a direction that can be even more monetized. See, you’re making the same mistake and you don’t even realize. It’s so ingrained into people’s thinking process that things like this just slip in. CCP are not double-charging you. You pay a sub, that’s it and _you don’t even have to pay that!_ Everything else is absolutely and 100% optional. That’s _reality_. What people are _thinking_ (aka that CCP are double-charging) simply isn’t. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > And sure one could argue that it’s the consumers fault. This is something that will haunt us, as humanity, in the future. Politicians will declare that it’s all our fault for the world being how it is, and they will get away with it, because people are too ■■■■■■■ stupid to understand that it’s politics and media, combined with decades of science and research worth hundreds of billions that - over many generations - turned people into mindless, instinct driven idiots who can not think critically or … well … at all. In the big picture it _would_ be the consumers fault if the consumers ever had a chance of actually growing up in a way that enables them to actually use their brains for something else than being mindless automatons 99% of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/50 "2019-05-13T14:30:39Z")
> [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > In the big picture it _would_ be the consumers fault if the consumers ever had a chance of actually growing up in a way that enables them to actually use their brains for something else than being mindless automatons 99% of the time. Now you are the one that speaks like everyone is a victim and unable to think for themselves. Look, there may be some truth to what you say, but you are extremely exaturating and to be honest that is not better than the victim narrative of the sjw idiots. > [@Solecist\_Project](#): > > CCP are not double-charging you. You pay a sub, that’s it and _you don’t even have to pay that!_ Everything else is absolutely and 100% optional. That’s _reality_ . What people are _thinking_ (aka that CCP are double-charging) simply isn’t. CCP charges for access to the game content and then walles some content off for even more money. That is what I mean by it. There is a point where you can simply overdo it with monitazation. Stop projecting that every time someone criticises something that the only reason is that they feel themselves as victims.. I find it simply tasteless to implement a cash shop on top of a subscription model and I call that double charging. There are multiple ways to monetize a game, pick ONE. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/51 "2019-05-13T16:24:14Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > CCP charges for access to the game content and then walles some content off for even more money. You can play the game without paying for it as an Alpha character. What is this “some content” that is being walled off for “more money”? Do you meeting purchasing Skill Extractors? Or PLEX as the in game item? I’m not sure I understand what you mean by walling off some content with more money. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/52 "2019-05-13T21:23:56Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > You can play the game without paying for it as an Alpha character. You can access a really small subset for free and are limited to ~5mil free SP, that is all. If you want to access ships that are in any way relevant you have to pay a sub. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > What is this “some content” that is being walled off for “more money”? Skins and Skill extractors. They could have made them in-game items that drop since we already payed 15$ per month for the game. I find it tasteless to try to sell stuff on top of that. You know, I’m well aware that you may think that is extremely odd and they are completely justified because that is what all the other game developers do. But I find this development completely horrible. I hate that every game has a cash shop and tries to sell you more ■■■■ at every corner! I can understand if you encounter this in a free2play game, but not in a game that is subscription based and has even one of the most expensive subscriptions in the industry. If I pay 15$ I don’t want to get advertisements about additional offers! I payed already for the game! And if CCP thinks they have to do this anyway then they get none of my money. I know that I may be in the minority here and that people just buy this ■■■■. Good for CCP. I’m sure they will try to push it further and you will all welcome it. ---
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/53 "2019-05-13T21:39:06Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Skins and Skill extractors. They could have made them in-game items that drop since we already payed 15$ per month for the game. I find it tasteless to try to sell stuff on top of that. This sounds like absolutely entitled whining. I cannot believe you are actually suggesting that CCP allow Skill Extractors and Skin to drop as random loot items. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/54 "2019-05-13T21:56:08Z")
> [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > This sounds like absolutely entitled whining. I don’t feel entitled to anything. I simply stated my reason why I don’t pay any money for this game anymore. > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > I cannot believe you are actually suggesting that CCP allow Skill Extractors and Skin to drop as random loot items. Tell me one reason why they should not be PvE drops. Some Skinns are already PvE drops by the way, just very few ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/55 "2019-08-11T21:56:19Z")
This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Lord\_Arranoth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_lord_arranoth/32/297296_2.png) [@ISD\_Lord\_Arranoth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Lord_Arranoth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2020, 1:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/56 "2020-07-04T13:20:52Z")
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**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2020, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782/57 "2020-07-04T13:27:07Z")
Just a bit of an update regarding this topic to say that this stuff is still gathering attention. > **[Loot boxes: Lords call for 'immediate' gambling regulation](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53253195)** > > Loot boxes, skins and player packs should be regulated immediately, says a Lords committee. The article touches on gambling in gaming in general, not just loot boxes and this line in particular stood out to me: > “If a product looks like gambling and feels like gambling, it should be regulated as gambling,” their report says. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/us-senator-introduces-ban-on-loot-boxes-p2w-not-a-troll-thread/157782.md?page=2)