# Utari's Puppies (Formerly Off-Topic Thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128 "2017-06-21T18:18:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/480 "2018-01-21T00:44:43Z")
Copying Mr. Nauplius, then? > [@Halcyon\_Ember](#): > > When you do anything actually worth a damn I’ll take your commentary more seriously. Just the same as Mr. Nauplius blaming others in slave killling… 🙄 No, really, can we please keep IGS clean of accusations of what you yourselves are doing. Of course, I do not disagree with this statement, but I disagree with the source it comes from. What is it, a baiting for a “No, you” response? So, can we please keep the media out from such sort of outbursts? It will make it way more friendly and tolerable for fruitful discussions, instead of each other pouring buckets of mud on other heads? And if your desire to point on other’s faults is SO intolerable, make sure that: 1. You don’t have the same fault; and 2. You have earned some MERIT to do so, for Maker’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/481 "2018-01-21T13:17:40Z")
I created a corporation with the stated aim of exploring the cluster, training others and attempting to reduce aggression between capsuleers. It failed yes but I’d hardly call it doing nothing. I don’t _really_ expect you to recognise that, however. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/0/7/07922c56deb74d4bfec64581f7ae09f5d98d8b33.png) I expect you to hold yourself to these same standards, ms Kim. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/482 "2018-01-21T13:33:17Z")
> [@Halcyon\_Ember](#): > > I created a corporation with the stated aim of exploring the cluster, training others and attempting to reduce aggression between capsuleers. It failed yes but I’d hardly call it doing nothing. I don’t really expect you to recognise that, however. Well, why not. If that matters for you so much, I _do recognize_ your failure. > [@Halcyon\_Ember](#): > > I expect you to hold yourself to these same standards, ms Kim. If you failed to notice that by some reason, these standards are my actual guidelines, that I so far have followed whenever I have insulted anyone. And yes, I am offering them since they are already my modus operandi, that’s why I have moral superiority to offer them. On the other hand, you fail to follow these standards, and how dare you even offer me my own standards, when you yourself can’t follow them? ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 1:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/483 "2018-01-21T13:35:52Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Well, why not. If that matters for you so much, I do recognize your failure. Fine, I recognise your failure to positively impact the Caldari-Gallente conflict. What merit did you have to insert yourself into the discourse between myself and Charles when you repeatedly complain about others doing the same to you? Surely if you have any standards to follow you should be above such things, as an example to us all? ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/484 "2018-01-21T13:48:14Z")
> [@Halcyon\_Ember](#): > > Fine, I recognise your failure to positively impact the Caldari-Gallente conflict. Stop trolling, I never made such a claim or demanded you to recognize that nonsence. > [@Halcyon\_Ember](#): > > What merit did you have to insert yourself into the discourse between myself and Charles when you repeatedly complain about others doing the same to you? Surely if you have any standards to follow you should be above such things, as an example to us all? As a capsuleer, I am way better pilot than you two taken together. As a human, I am times more polite and respectful to non-hostile speakers than any of you. I have many other merits, by they are related to Caldari and they are not your jaijii business, nor I want to brag more than necessary, these two are more than enough to show you your place. ---
**Author:** ![Halcyon\_Ember](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/halcyon_ember/32/131702_2.png) [@Halcyon\_Ember](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Halcyon_Ember)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/485 "2018-01-21T13:52:29Z")
Your inability to recognise your own hypocrisy is simultaneously the most hilarious and the most tragic aspect of interacting with you. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/486 "2018-01-21T13:54:30Z")
> [@Halcyon\_Ember](#): > > Your inability to recognise your own hypocrisy is simultaneously the most hilarious and the most tragic aspect of interacting with you. That’s pathetic and inane attack. Point at one hypocrisy I have said. I am tired of baseless accusations of unmerited persons. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/487 "2018-01-21T14:03:33Z")
Ember, just ignore her. The fact that most of us do is obviously starting to get to her, or she wouldn’t have gone after you like that. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/488 "2018-01-21T15:05:48Z")
> [@Announcement: God has Given the Achurans Over to Destruction](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/announcement-god-has-given-the-achurans-over-to-destruction/49204/227): > > You’re a ■■■■ing heretic! Isn’t he already a heretic, according to the Amarr mainstream faith? This just makes him an _inconsistent_ heretic, at least with his stated dogma. ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/489 "2018-01-21T15:11:56Z")
Oh, he is. In his own polluted mind however… ---
**Author:** ![Andreus\_Ixiris](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andreus_ixiris/32/498273_2.png) [@Andreus\_Ixiris](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andreus_Ixiris)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/490 "2018-01-21T15:49:37Z")
I mean, a heretic according to _his own dogma_. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/491 "2018-01-21T16:11:42Z")
He can’t be. It’s literally Naupliusism. His Dogma is ‘me-ism’. Whenever it needs to change, it changes. As long as it’s all about him. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/492 "2018-01-21T16:23:10Z")
Whether that’s the literal framework or not it’s definitely the effect. Also, he has yet to come up with a “sin” that he can’t undo, even if he commits it himself, by murdering adequate numbers of people his god supposedly hates. ---
**Author:** ![Che\_Biko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/che_biko/32/500836_2.png) [@Che\_Biko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Che_Biko)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/493 "2018-01-21T17:22:08Z")
> [@\[NEW CHANNEL\] "The Valley"](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-channel-the-valley/52119/15): > > Thera has lacked a good place to relax Oh? Did something happen to the Six-Bladed Blossom, was it not to your liking, or did you simply not know about it? ---
**Author:** ![Mizhir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mizhir/32/379234_2.png) [@Mizhir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mizhir)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/494 "2018-01-21T17:34:52Z")
Never heard about it. ---
**Author:** ![Tannia\_Ambrye](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tannia_ambrye/32/410653_2.png) [@Tannia\_Ambrye](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tannia_Ambrye)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/496 "2018-01-22T05:05:08Z")
> [@Announcement: God has Given the Achurans Over to Destruction](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/announcement-god-has-given-the-achurans-over-to-destruction/49204/238): > > > [@Announcement: God has Given the Achurans Over to Destruction](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/announcement-god-has-given-the-achurans-over-to-destruction/49204/228): > > > > That’s his idea of what slavery is supposed to be about. It’s precisely about destroying people. > > Ms. Jenneth is largely correct regarding the role of slavery within Naupliusism. I think what Mr. Ixiris seems to be saying is that slavery destroys the person, regardless of its stated intention. Whether or not the person’s physical body is destroyed is irrelavent, the mind of the person is irrecovably altered by the experience, and perhaps not in a positive way. This is what makes slavery so onerous to societies that value human life and dignity. I’ve reposted and modified my prior statement, that I erased, so that it better reflects my thoughts on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/497 "2018-01-22T05:20:43Z")
> [@Tannia\_Ambrye](#): > > the mind of the person is irrecovably altered by the experience Which, after all, is _exactly what Amarr slavery is for_. Taking someone and destroying them, to put someone else in their head, someone who thinks what the Amarr want them to think. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/498 "2018-01-22T05:37:45Z")
So-- there’s probably some truth to that, Ms. Ambrye. The Amarr do practice it with the hope of it altering people pretty deeply-- that is actually the point, of course. And really, not a lot of people (me included) would want to be subject to that. Only, there’s metaphorical death, and then there’s. … Well. Death. (With various awful optional sides.) Maybe it’s possible to cast it all as functionally “the same,” but, while I really wouldn’t want to end up in that situation in the Empire (and I don’t feel like probably anyone should), I could probably live with it. Same with the Cartel, Serpentis, or Guristas, even if the idea makes me go cold all over. Blood Raiders? Sansha’s Nation? … Mr. Nauplius? If that’s about to happen, please shoot me lots, ideally in the head. That’s an open invitation to basically anybody. I’d be better off dead than held by any of those. One of the scariest moments of my existence to date was hunkering down behind a control panel as Blood Raiders stormed a war barge bridge, not sure I could figure out how to use the Amarrian sidearm I’d got hold of fast enough to guarantee I wouldn’t be taken alive. I never want to be the damsel in distress again; what was scarier than the possibility of getting shot was the possibility of not getting shot. Some things aren’t worth living through. Some that can be analogized to death, nevertheless are. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/499 "2018-01-22T05:41:52Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > I could probably live with it No, you couldn’t. Someone else could, in your meat. To argue otherwise requires eradicating the distinctions between you and ‘your predecessor’. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2018, 5:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/500 "2018-01-22T05:49:58Z")
Hm. Does that mean that a new person emerges from every traumatic, life-changing event? Or is slavery special in some way? (As an aside, I used to find the idea that I’m the same person she was just horrifying, partly because I inevitably at least partly really am that same person. I’ve kind of gradually come to feel that we really are one person-- just, not quite the same, either.) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128.md?page=23) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128.md?page=25)