# Utari's Puppies (Formerly Off-Topic Thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [June 21, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128 "2017-06-21T18:18:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 7:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1168 "2018-04-17T19:41:18Z")
Well … but that’s the idea exactly. I’m clever, but not wise. It’s enough to cause a lot of trouble, if I put my mind to it. It’s kind of a problem. I want to get better at navigating this world. To do that, I have to understand the connections. To do THAT … I can’t really go looking at my own place in things in an unrealistic way. They say that achieving real understanding is kind of like coming full circle: returning to a simpler way of looking at things, but with a broader perspective. That’s what I want. In the end, that’s what it’s about: understanding my place in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1169 "2018-04-17T19:47:44Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > I want to get better at navigating this world. To do that, I have to understand the connections. To do THAT … I can’t really go looking at my own place in things in an unrealistic way. Well, then I have bad news for you… > [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > My sense of something that isn’t “real” is based in different standards. To me, it’s founded in the question of whether I’m distinct, separate, in a way that isn’t ultimately a bunch of semiotic head games. And, I’m not. That’s pretty unrealistic. You have to understand you, as a distinct, separate thing, before you can understand you-in-context-of-everything. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1170 "2018-04-17T19:52:41Z")
Mm. Maybe, but actually I don’t think understanding myself out of context with others is … desirable? … possible? I’m pretty much a big ball of interactions. Is there a “me” outside of my context (broadly construed)? Hm … don’t really think so. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1171 "2018-04-17T19:57:45Z")
Of course there is. In order to understand the context of observations, you have to be able to understand the observer as distinct from those observations. Otherwise, you’re tainting the data. It’d be like trying to use calipers to measure how wide the calipers are: no matter how hard you try, you can’t open them wide enough to contain themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1172 "2018-04-17T20:03:38Z")
Ah, wouldn’t that be nice: to be able to do a scientific study of one’s self, with control groups! I think that might get me into some trouble with CONCORD though. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1173 "2018-04-17T20:06:47Z")
Have to do it the old-fashioned way, I’m afraid. _Know Thyself_. ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1174 "2018-04-17T20:21:58Z")
Yeah, kind of permanently working on that. But I can’t take myself out of the world all that well. Particularly, doing that removes my main method for testing hypotheses. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 8:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1175 "2018-04-17T20:40:13Z")
You don’t have to take yourself out of the world. You just have to stop pretending there’s no separation. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1176 "2018-04-17T20:41:31Z")
To the world, you are one person. But to one person, you could be the world. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1177 "2018-04-17T20:42:15Z")
And to the fool, empty platitudes appear to be wisdom. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1178 "2018-04-17T20:42:57Z")
🍋🍉🍓 Try again. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1179 "2018-04-17T20:44:16Z")
No thanks, I prefer 🍑 🥝 🍓 when I do flavored teas. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1180 "2018-04-17T20:45:18Z")
I’ve never seen a fruit machine that had a 🥝 on it. What kind of bizarro station did you grow up on ? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1181 "2018-04-17T20:49:17Z")
Pator III (Huggar) - Moon 2 - Republic Security Services Assembly Plant. I’m sorry your fruit dispensories are so woefully under-stocked. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1182 "2018-04-17T21:15:23Z")
> [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](#): > > Hostility? > > None at all! I just see dirt in her eyes, she trying to clean it and offer assitance. And that is a hostility, Ms. Tsukiyo. Pretty much I would reply to you with a lot of unpleasant words if you’d say that about me, and I think you’d do the same if that would be said about you. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1183 "2018-04-17T22:08:17Z")
I don’t see dirt on your eyes, much less you trying to clean it. You are on your path fulfilling your role with no doubts nor reservations. Good for you. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1184 "2018-04-17T22:20:20Z")
> [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](#): > > I don’t see dirt on your eyes, much less you trying to clean it. > > You are on your path fulfilling your role with no doubts nor reservations. > > Good for you. Ms. Tsukyio, it wasn’t really about my eyes, it was just a hypothetical situation to try to show why this claim is hostile. Basically, any assumption about any other person made in public, that they might consider negative, is a hostile behavior. If I do that on accident (which, unfortunately… happens… I am jsut a human and thus I make a lot of mistakes…) - I bring apologies. If I do that on purpose - well, that’s treatment for people whom I am going to kill anyway. If you want to help other person, I’d recommend doing it with their consent and in private, so any information that anyone might consider sensitive or depicting in negative light, would remain just between you two. ---
**Author:** ![Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/morgana_tsukiyo/32/385507_2.png) [@Morgana\_Tsukiyo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Morgana_Tsukiyo)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1185 "2018-04-17T22:26:19Z")
@Aria_Jenneth, do you consider our interactions hostile? ---
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1186 "2018-04-17T23:32:39Z")
Hm. Well … In the midst of a great flood, a woman clinging to a log reaches her hand to another who has just struggled up on shore. The woman on shore, seeing the other’s distress, leans and reaches out, as far as she can, over the raging floodwaters, and their fingers just meet. But the woman on the log doesn’t release it, and before her face can even fully register her shock, the woman on shore is pulled into the water. Still clinging tight, the other helps her flailing companion to reach the log. “Why?” splutters the woman who had reached the shore as the current sweeps them both away from the bank and out into the torrent. The other shrugs. “This seemed like so much fun,” she says, “and I didn’t want you to miss it.” That’s how I perceive your offered assistance. You’re the one who needs rescuing, but you can’t see it, and you’ll happily pull me back in after you. You’re kind of someone who makes me wish the Achura had a concept of heresy, but, we don’t. As it is, you’re just … lost. And I will be, too, if I listen to you. Is that hostile? … maybe, or, maybe not quite. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128/1187 "2018-04-17T23:36:43Z")
> [@Aria\_Jenneth](#): > > Is that hostile? … maybe, or, maybe not quite. Is… is that really something you need a parable to contemplate? Do you view her attempts to ‘rescue’ you as hostile or not? Is she motivated by hostility, or by a potentially misinformed but sincere desire to help? Are your responses to her motivated by hostility, or by a firm, but non-malicious belief that she’s not in a position to help? Hostility shouldn’t really be something you have to equivocate about. Either you’re hostile, or you’re not. I mean, you don’t have much question about when I’ve been actually _hostile_ and when I haven’t, do you? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128.md?page=57) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/utaris-puppies-formerly-off-topic-thread/5128.md?page=59)