# VERY Big waste of time and money and hungry people to **URL:** \ **Category:** Mining & Extraction\ **Tags:** null-sec, modules, community\ **Created:** [January 5, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656 "2023-01-05T19:33:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ULYSSE\_NADOR](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ulysse_nador/32/291953_2.png) [@ULYSSE\_NADOR](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ULYSSE_NADOR)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/1 "2023-01-05T19:33:20Z")
PLEASE CCP Hi guys very good job. can you tell me why “Pandemic horde” is screaming in people’s ears, not to use T2 mods and at the same time I think about the time I’m wasting to get all the perfect skills (all 5)? “Pandemic horde” is furious at anom’s waste. do you know how very difficult it is for me to get a single “very profitable” and useful anomaly?? wtf CCC? what am I going to do with all these f… T2 modules and crystals? Thanks again, I guess there will be something for the next update! And make Eve look awesome online again, but today she isn’t! PS: I think we expect a lot from this update. why all this, if it’s just a waste of money to get them!! F… ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/2 "2023-01-05T20:39:30Z")
Is this, like, a Crime and Punishment post? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/3 "2023-01-05T22:27:53Z")
He’s an angry miner who got told by his null sec alliance that he isn’t allowed to use the wasteful T2 mining lasers he trained long for but must use slower T1 equipment, so that the alliance can mine more ore as a whole. In the battle of the interests of the player versus the interests of the group, the group is probably going to win. I do somewhat agree with the post though. I liked that CCP gave in to the call to make T1 mining lasers less wasteful, but I never liked that T1 mining equipment became even less wasteful than even the most efficient and least wasteful T2 mining equipment, type A crystals. Type A crystals and T1 mining lasers should’ve been equally wasteful, in my opinion, to avoid this exact situation where T2 mining lasers are useless if people are trying to be efficient with the ore. ---
**Author:** ![xHxHxAOD](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xhxhxaod/32/396571_2.png) [@xHxHxAOD](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/xHxHxAOD)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2023, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/4 "2023-01-05T22:52:09Z")
Use ore strips why be a noob? ---
**Author:** ![ULYSSE\_NADOR](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ulysse_nador/32/291953_2.png) [@ULYSSE\_NADOR](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ULYSSE_NADOR)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/5 "2023-01-06T06:09:32Z")
its very expensive and for low slill pilot indead. the module are at 200 M isk each. ---
**Author:** ![ULYSSE\_NADOR](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ulysse_nador/32/291953_2.png) [@ULYSSE\_NADOR](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ULYSSE_NADOR)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 6:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/6 "2023-01-06T06:24:32Z")
it’s like throwing money in the trash (priceless resources and mining crystals at 1.5 million each). All miners also have the right to make a little money, don’t even think about it, otherwise in the end, there are no more resources… I haven’t increased my skills to lose money ! ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/7 "2023-01-06T09:58:35Z")
Why do you care what “pandemic horde” (who is this?) is saying? It’s your game, play how **you** want, not how somebody else tells you … lol. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 10:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/8 "2023-01-06T10:04:36Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Why do you care what “pandemic horde” (who is this?) is saying? It’s the largest alliance in the game, and he’s part of it. It’s not uncommon for alliances to have rules about something like this, because if every individual miner used wasteful high yield mining equipment (for their own benefit), the alliance members as a whole have access to less ore due to waste. It’s why I think it is bad for the game that T1 is less wasteful than the least wasteful T2 mining option, because people are currently encouraged to use T1 and ignore all of their T2 skills if they care for the sake of the group (or are enforced to do so). That feels wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 10:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/9 "2023-01-06T10:11:23Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > It’s the largest alliance in the game, and he’s part of it. Yeah, I know of course 😉 But complaining about on the forum what other players tell you to do or not is kind of pointless. You either shut up and obey or make your own decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/10 "2023-01-06T10:12:24Z")
No, this is a problem created by CCP, so he’s right to complain on the forums ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/11 "2023-01-06T10:15:03Z")
Thought about it could have been made so deliberately? In order to force choices when being in a mega blob? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/12 "2023-01-06T10:19:19Z")
Even if T2 type A mining had been equally wasteful as T1 mining, mega blobs and other groups would still have made the same rules '_no wasteful mining on certain ore’_ to stop selfish miners from using type B crystals for quick ISK at the cost of the alliance. That choice would still be there for groups to take. The big difference is that people would then still be able to use the many many T2 mining skills they trained for in the form of T2 type A mining crystals, unlike now. ---
**Author:** ![Buggs\_LeRoach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buggs_leroach/32/376676_2.png) [@Buggs\_LeRoach](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buggs_LeRoach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/13 "2023-01-06T15:06:06Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > to stop selfish miners from using type B crystals for quick ISK at the cost of the alliance. would you not then consider the op a ‘selfish miner’ for using wasteful type A crystals for quick isk at the cost of the alliance ? and from the same anomaly , don’t miners make more isk the less waste they create ? the pre-req skills for t2 crystals seem to be the real issue . reprocessing skills that have no effect on yield are simply a time and isk sink .. ---
**Author:** ![Gleb\_Koskov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gleb_koskov/32/374138_2.png) [@Gleb\_Koskov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gleb_Koskov)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/14 "2023-01-06T15:10:45Z")
Mm stop thinking about food. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/15 "2023-01-06T16:44:14Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Thought about it could have been made so deliberately? CCP never does anything deliberately. ---
**Author:** ![xHxHxAOD](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xhxhxaod/32/396571_2.png) [@xHxHxAOD](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/xHxHxAOD)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/16 "2023-01-06T16:47:21Z")
Your point os what? That is what a few hours at best because you are mining r64 goo. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/17 "2023-01-06T18:08:42Z")
> [@Buggs\_LeRoach](#): > > would you not then consider the op a ‘selfish miner’ for using wasteful type A crystals for quick isk at the cost of the alliance ? and From the sound of it, the intention of the OP is to make use of their T2 mining skills, not to make quick ISK at the cost of the alliance. Currently, because of weird waste balance that made the efficient type A crystals _less_ efficient than T1 modules, that means the OP is forced to not use their T2 skills if they want to adhere to alliance rules. I think that’s a mistake by CCP. Type A crystals shouldn’t produce more waste than T1. > [@Buggs\_LeRoach](#): > > from the same anomaly , don’t miners make more isk the less waste they create ? Depends. If you have limited time as miner compared to the available ore, waste doesn’t matter. On the other hand, if you have limited ore, waste does matter. For a large alliance with limited valuable ore in space, waste matters, which is probably why they set up those rules about ‘no T2 equipment’. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/18 "2023-01-06T19:00:09Z")
What strikes me as perplexing is that the CSM hasn’t already gotten this fixed. The CSM is mostly comprised of null-block money grinder reps. Wouldn’t this, by definition, be #1 on their list. @Brisc_Rubal - seriously, what is up? You are still on the CSM, right? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/19 "2023-01-06T19:42:22Z")
Waste was dumb, but it’s here to stay. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2023, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656/20 "2023-01-06T21:50:37Z")
Even if waste is to stay, can some of the issues with waste be fixed? Like this situation, where people are encouraged not to use (or skill into) T2 at all. I think the current idea of crystals for high and low waste is good, so that T2 miners have choice between more yield (type B) and less waste (type A). The only bad thing about it is that ‘low waste’ is still wasting more than T1. Make T1 and T2 type A crystal waste equal, either by increasing T1 waste or by decreasing T2 type A crystal waste, and this issue is fixed. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/very-big-waste-of-time-and-money-and-hungry-people-to/390656.md?page=2)