# Voter Apathy - Bitter Pills **URL:** \ **Category:** Jita Park\ **Tags:** high-sec, csm\ **Created:** [June 15, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190 "2018-06-15T15:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Xenuria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xenuria/32/264531_2.png) [@Xenuria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xenuria)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 11:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/41 "2018-06-20T11:25:57Z")
> [@Alaric\_Faelen](#): > > You want your CSM to be an expert at the game. Clearly GSF has that expertise on staff. GSF not only does, but excels at pretty much all available content in Eve so calling them a ‘null bloc’ is ignorant. They do everything in the game, and do it on an industrial scale. So go ahead and grrr gewns all you want, you got a CSM of people that are better at the game than you, and often times better than the devs at anticipating and adapting to new content/updates/patches. I have seen this first hand during my term. There are ideas and concepts that never see the light of day because some goons on CSM give examples of how horribly wrong it would go. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_golden_serpent/32/79734_2.png) [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Golden_Serpent)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/42 "2018-06-20T15:34:37Z")
I was under the impression, listening to Imperium candidates, that they are interested in the overall health of the game,not in shallow goon short term interests. Are you suggesting that’s not the case and goons would contribute to the death of the game in the interest of short-term isk gain? That doesn’t make much sense to me. I would especially vote for Merkelchen. My ballot was lowsec, party line to TMOCC. But I dont mind goons being in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/43 "2018-06-20T15:40:23Z")
> [@Xenuria](#): > > The blame for low turn out falls squarely on the shoulders of the apathetic voter. No. I got the note in-game and I went to the CSM webpage and from there did I read through all the things the candidates wrote. Frankly, yours I found to be worse than the guy who managed to enter no info at all. After I read yours all I knew was that it was just about you getting into the CSM and that you tried so hard while you knew you had a low chance with your “Me Me Me!!”-strategy. I could go as far as saying that such an attitude as yours is more lilkely to blame for people not voting than anything else. And yes, I did not vote for you. The CSM is about what players want and not what you want. The least I expect to read from a CSM candidate is what they want to do for us. I sure won’t vote for anyone who writes only about themselves. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_golden_serpent/32/79734_2.png) [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Golden_Serpent)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/44 "2018-06-20T15:45:05Z")
Come on. Everyone knows Xenuria. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/45 "2018-06-20T15:50:50Z")
> [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](#): > > Everyone knows Xenuria. Certainly not everyone knows him. I know Xenuria, and I still have hope he gets it one day. So you come on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_golden_serpent/32/79734_2.png) [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Golden_Serpent)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/46 "2018-06-20T15:53:27Z")
Then you probably voted for him. Never not vote for Xenuria! ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/47 "2018-06-20T15:55:40Z")
> [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](#): > > Then you probably voted for him. Never not vote for Xenuria! You mean “probably” as in “you cannot read”? Start taking the job of a CSM serious or stop cluttering the candidate list. Oh my, I can see you already scribbling another reply. Let’s have it… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_golden_serpent/32/79734_2.png) [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Golden_Serpent)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/48 "2018-06-20T15:58:08Z")
Don’t tell me what to do. Xenuria never tells me what to do. He only asks for my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/49 "2018-06-20T15:58:35Z")
> [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](#): > > Don’t tell me what to do. Or what? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_golden_serpent/32/79734_2.png) [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Golden_Serpent)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/50 "2018-06-20T16:00:35Z")
Or I’ll vote for Xenuria next election. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/51 "2018-06-20T16:02:02Z")
> [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](#): > > Or I’ll vote for Xenuria next election. I won’t stop you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_golden_serpent/32/79734_2.png) [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Golden_Serpent)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/52 "2018-06-20T16:03:00Z")
You CANT stop me. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/53 "2018-06-20T16:04:32Z")
> [@The\_Golden\_Serpent](#): > > You CANT stop me. Are you sure? ---
**Author:** ![Alaric\_Faelen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alaric_faelen/32/187278_2.png) [@Alaric\_Faelen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alaric_Faelen)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/54 "2018-06-20T20:53:48Z")
I always top vote Xenuria. If just for the sheer chance of chaos or comedy to follow. Besides, you might not like his delivery but everything he pointed out is true. It’s not just that people in high sec don’t care about ‘nullsec bs’…it’s that they don’t care about the game at all. By and large they are loners that engage in a single activity to the total exclusion of all else. You could remove 98% of the game and they wouldn’t even notice. Likewise, you could remove them all from the game and not really notice. They come and go all the time. They are irrelevant, by choice. The Golden Serpent is correct that Imperium CSM members have the health of the entire game in mind because the Imperium is involved in all aspects of the game. We’re about the only ones that are, and we’re incredibly successful at it to boot. To think that the Imperium is solely focused on sov is silly. We have everything from market moguls and high sec gankers, low sec pirates and FW alt corps, wormhole dwellers, and of course null sec which pays for it all. We have miners, mission runners, incursion farmers, explorers, newbies, bittervets, builders, breakers, and of course thousands of friends to make this game a little less terrible. Null sec would LOVE for Fozziesov to either get fixed or get deleted because it has sucked for years now, and the rest of the game has stagnated as a result. You get some new baubles and ships but major chunks of content like FW need overhauled completely but don’t because CCP is still trying to polish a turd in FozzieSov years later. The reason Eve is so sov-centric is a basic feedback loop. Lots of players do sov, so sov is a priority to get right and balanced, other parts of the game stagnate and players have to choose either join sov or miss out on content because sov gets all the attention, so more people end up in sov, which means it gets unbalanced and needs fixed more…and so on. ---
**Author:** ![MinerArt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/minerart/32/33728_2.png) [@MinerArt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MinerArt)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/55 "2018-06-20T21:18:02Z")
> [@Alaric\_Faelen](#): > > everything he pointed out is true. It’s an interesting thing when an opinion is converted to fact. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/56 "2018-06-20T21:22:06Z")
Was there voter apathy? I’m not sure. I don’t really care… ---
**Author:** ![Xenuria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xenuria/32/264531_2.png) [@Xenuria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xenuria)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/57 "2018-06-21T12:50:52Z")
> [@Whitehound](#): > > > [@Xenuria](#): > > > > The blame for low turn out falls squarely on the shoulders of the apathetic voter. > > No. I got the note in-game and I went to the CSM webpage and from there did I read through all the things the candidates wrote. Frankly, yours I found to be worse than the guy who managed to enter no info at all. After I read yours all I knew was that it was just about you getting into the CSM and that you tried so hard while you knew you had a low chance with your “Me Me Me!!”-strategy. I could go as far as saying that such an attitude as yours is more lilkely to blame for people not voting than anything else. And yes, I did not vote for you. > > The CSM is about what players want and not what you want. The least I expect to read from a CSM candidate is what they want to do for us. I sure won’t vote for anyone who writes only about themselves. I guess you didn’t bother to read my thread, the previous meeting mins, the interviews, podcasts or anything other than the “Would you like to know more?” stinger. That’s fine. If you are a voter but you don’t want to invest the time to learn about candidates I can respect that. My contempt is reserved solely for those who CAN vote but choose not to vote only to gripe about the outcome. Edit: There is an inherent issue with the availability of info though. If you don’t already know about all that stuff it isn’t going to jump out at you on the candidate page. So I suppose a case can be made that any new page should have integration with all these media sources. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/58 "2018-06-21T12:59:01Z")
> [@Xenuria](#): > > I guess you didn’t bother to read my thread, the previous meeting mins, the interviews, podcasts or anything other than the “Would you like to know more?” stinger. That’s fine. You need to work on what you write on the candidates’ page. Seriously. Only those invested deeply into CSM work will go to the extend to read your entire story. People do judge books by their cover, and I do, too. There isn’t enough time in this world to read every book. You’ve got to work on how you present yourself. Don’t write about yourself nor write about meta politics. Write about what you think matters to those whose vote you want to have, but don’t write as if you wanted everyone’s vote. That’s the best advice I can give you right now. Reading your edit now… Don’t expect voters to read more than a page. There are many candidates out there and most players don’t want to spend more than an hour going through them all just to learn what they’re offering. Don’t try to convince the whole world of yourself. Just be better than the others, that’s all you need to do. ---
**Author:** ![Xenuria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xenuria/32/264531_2.png) [@Xenuria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xenuria)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/59 "2018-06-21T13:03:20Z")
Fair Point ---
**Author:** ![Gal\_Desh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gal_desh/32/12859_2.png) [@Gal\_Desh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gal_Desh)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190/60 "2018-06-21T15:53:29Z")
I vote every year, I’m in HS and I can honestly say I have voter apathy. Just my thoughts on this whole thing… I don’t feel that many people running represent me and my activities. We know that voting blocks win, it’s a proven method. So it is hard for an individual that is unaffiliated to win a seat at the table. I firmly believe that the CSM can be valuable, but I think it needs to be revamped. I still think that it should be restructured so that people are running for specific slots. If you have 10 members, I think there should be 2 Null, 2 Low, 2 High, 2 WH, 1 Industrialist (mining, manufacturing, invention, etc.) and 1 PVE (missions, anomalies, incursions, events, etc.). Then candidates would run under a specific ticket (i.e. Null Candidate) and they would have that platform as their focus. True representation across all of the game is essential in my opinion because the player base is very diverse. Again, just my .02 ISK. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/voter-apathy-bitter-pills/83190.md?page=4)