# Want players to pay more, then give players development control **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 24, 2022, 8:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669 "2022-04-24T08:44:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Same\_Old\_Topics](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/same_old_topics/32/282720_2.png) [@Same\_Old\_Topics](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Same_Old_Topics)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/61 "2022-04-26T16:53:38Z")
Sit down and drink your juicebox. ---
**Author:** ![Kaver\_Linkovir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaver_linkovir/32/397406_2.png) [@Kaver\_Linkovir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaver_Linkovir)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/62 "2022-04-26T17:05:40Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > The trouble is that you then have a battle of perceived importance of ‘issues’ that may not be clearly defined and which may impinge on other areas. You then end up with ‘It was in our manifesto !’ syndrome where you find that riding on the back of something you wanted was the small print of stuff you didn’t want. And nobody can define the issue clearly enough that everyone can _agree_ that it doesn’t affect some other area. Voting can’t be done referencing a manifesto. If you can’t state it clearly you will probably struggle to get enough enough votes to get the proposal ranked. > [@Same\_Old\_Topics](#): > > Sit down and drink your juicebox. Only if you lay down and drink your prunejuice, dear. You have had quite the day and we wouldn’t want you falling over from fatigue now, your bones being as brittle as they are. ---
**Author:** ![LowKey\_Chandler](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lowkey_chandler/32/441798_2.png) [@LowKey\_Chandler](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/LowKey_Chandler)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/63 "2022-04-26T17:45:01Z")
> [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > This isn’t without risks either as we have seen when Pochven was locked to players who sided with Edencom when the content was nice and fresh resulting in somewhat of a bitter pil to swallow for half the participants. THAT WAS ME! ---
**Author:** ![Same\_Old\_Topics](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/same_old_topics/32/282720_2.png) [@Same\_Old\_Topics](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Same_Old_Topics)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/64 "2022-04-26T17:51:19Z")
> [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > Only if you lay down and drink your prunejuice, dear. You have had quite the day and we wouldn’t want you falling over from fatigue now, your bones being as brittle as they are. Ill drink the prune juice. Ill eat the fiber muffins. I won’t however, tiktok myself eating detergent. Or spoonfuls of cinnamon. ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/65 "2022-04-26T17:54:25Z")
> [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > I am not asking for control # [Want players to pay more, then give players development control](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669) –Gadget notes a bit of a slip there… ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/66 "2022-04-26T18:08:37Z")
The thing is written in Python, nobody wants that crap. They can keep “control” of it. ---
**Author:** ![Kaver\_Linkovir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaver_linkovir/32/397406_2.png) [@Kaver\_Linkovir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaver_Linkovir)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/67 "2022-04-26T18:36:37Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > # [Want players to pay more, then give players development control](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669) > > –Gadget notes a bit of a slip there… Like I said, I am not asking for control, I am asking more control be given to players. ---
**Author:** ![Ran\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ran_yamaguchi/32/279235_2.png) [@Ran\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ran_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2022, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/72 "2022-04-26T21:32:57Z")
> [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > Like I said, I am not asking for control, I am asking more control be given to players. Are you a player? Then yes, you are asking for more control. ---
**Author:** ![Sampl\_Boirelle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sampl_boirelle/32/350907_2.png) [@Sampl\_Boirelle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sampl_Boirelle)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 3:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/73 "2022-04-27T03:01:15Z")
> [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > Sure, but wouldn’t that be fun in and of itself? Yes i can agree with that, just not with a game I and so many others are actually playing 🙂 Maybe some burner game to test absolute player input, what the player says goes. > [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > And would it be worse then some of the things that the developers have been messing up all on their own? I don’t think CCP is messing anything up. everything what they put in the game is working. People can mine, people can build, people can fight with no crashes. come to think of it i have in my years of playing EVE Online not once encountered something or anything that was game breaking. Unlike another developer that starts with an F and ends with rontier. ---
**Author:** ![Nemrod\_Dreamwalker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nemrod_dreamwalker/32/250803_2.png) [@Nemrod\_Dreamwalker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nemrod_Dreamwalker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 4:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/74 "2022-04-27T04:35:01Z")
If it comes to crashing… yeah… but lag, server issues … well… when was it… when they startet to outsource chat to amazon… known as blackout (#kappa)… 2018? … not sure… until than i had never seen before chat is randomly disconnecting which was never completely fixed… or the disconnecting in general /broken or delayed local. or i was just lucky the previous 6 years… but have to say its not as bad as it was 2 years ago tbh. just a few times per week at least atm. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/75 "2022-04-27T06:26:30Z")
> [@Same\_Old\_Topics](#): > > Of all the thing’s that no game developer should never do, giving players “control” of said development is what developers should never do the most. 👍 that is a law of game development everibody has ideas on how to improve every aspect of a thing they have no idea how it works ---
**Author:** ![Jint\_Hikaru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jint_hikaru/32/387656_2.png) [@Jint\_Hikaru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jint_Hikaru)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2022, 7:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/76 "2022-04-27T07:59:23Z")
> [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > This thread is a good example of how opponents are the most vocal, 30 likes but almost all of the replies start by saying no and listing risks. Not really a fair and balanced metric when its not possible to ‘Not Like’. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2022, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/77 "2022-05-01T13:18:43Z")
The players don’t need no development control. ---
**Author:** ![Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/geo_eclipse_oksaras/32/500781_2.png) [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/78 "2022-05-01T14:13:33Z")
Inmates shouldnt be running the asylum ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/79 "2022-05-01T16:27:27Z")
> [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > Every paying player gets one vote per month. Top voted issue in a category gets fixed first. And how do you resolve the fact that some player groups are going to be so small that their issue is never fixed making them feel entirely ignore given there will literally be a vote showing them their issue is insignificant? That and players aren’t good at deciding what should be fixed in general > [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > Such a bleak view of the democratic process. Thats how votes work, people vote for what is in their best personal interests, it has always worked this way > [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > CCP needing cash on hand this badly means we are close to this threshold. Who said anything about them needing cash badly, the price rise for subs is very long overdue, wages haven’t stagnated, operating costs haven’t stagnated, licensing costs haven’t stagnated The price should have gone up before now lol > [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > This should have been solved by growing the playerbase. Sure but thats not really going to happen for a niche game like EVE, its a complicated game and casuals aren’t going to be able to get in to it, the average person these days doesn’t even seem to use google to look for information anymore, you can’t be expecting them to do the required reading to play EVE lol > [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > That is because CCP has focussed on violence as the best way to make contact with another player. This is a design choice that could do with a closer examination. They made a PvP game with actual loss, what were you expecting, habbo hotel? This style of gameplay doesn’t appeal to everyone and never will ---
**Author:** ![Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/emotional_support_clown/32/310422_2.png) [@Emotional\_Support\_Clown](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Emotional_Support_Clown)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2022, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/80 "2022-05-01T16:48:02Z")
Give us the API, you can keep the game. ---
**Author:** ![Kaver\_Linkovir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaver_linkovir/32/397406_2.png) [@Kaver\_Linkovir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaver_Linkovir)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/81 "2022-05-01T23:30:26Z")
> [@Ran\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Are you a player? Then yes, you are asking for more control. More control for all subscribed players. Since the CSM frequently gets blindsided by CCP going off the rails in a way that bleeds subscribers. > [@Sampl\_Boirelle](#): > > Yes i can agree with that, just not with a game I and so many others are actually playing 🙂 Maybe some burner game to test absolute player input, what the player says goes. We are already subject to absolute player input, EVE being a sandbox. What I am asking for is more then a token CSM that is frequently ignored and is marked by skewed representation. Voting on specifcs in a well thought out way would give an unbelievably valuable insight into what players actually care about versus what the loudest scream about the most. > [@Sampl\_Boirelle](#): > > I don’t think CCP is messing anything up. everything what they put in the game is working. People can mine, people can build, people can fight with no crashes. come to think of it i have in my years of playing EVE Online not once encountered something or anything that was game breaking. Unlike another developer that starts with an F and ends with rontier. According to your killboard you went away for a long time to return to EVE as the world was in the grips of the COVID pandemic. And it shows you biting of just a minute chunk of what EVE has on offer. Just because your niche gameplay works as you like it to doesn’t mean CCP ineptnes isn’t bleeding players. > [@Nemrod\_Dreamwalker](#): > > If it comes to crashing… yeah… > > but lag, server issues … > well… when was it… when they startet to outsource chat to amazon… known as blackout (#kappa)… 2018? … not sure… > until than i had never seen before chat is randomly disconnecting which was never completely fixed… or the disconnecting in general /broken or delayed local. > > or i was just lucky the previous 6 years… > > but have to say its not as bad as it was 2 years ago tbh. > just a few times per week > at least atm. Yes, many issues are old, some are newer and some are brandnew. Every fleet sees some disconnections, people getting stuck between gates is a weekly thing. There is a lot to do to make it less jarring on some of these issues. > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > 👍 > that is a law of game development > everibody has ideas on how to improve every aspect of a thing they have no idea how it works Hence the voting. With the CSM as a backstop to save players from themselves. And since EVE is a game, there can be voting on changes after they go live to see how they are recieved. If it turns out people don’t like it they can vote to change it back. Democracy as new realm for ingame PVP. Think of the headlines, think of the influx of new players seeking to partake or overthrow the voting system…all of them paying. It would be a glorious battle between people wanting cat ears and people wanting duckface portrait options and people wanting none of that. > [@Jint\_Hikaru](#): > > Not really a fair and balanced metric when its not possible to ‘Not Like’. Yes, you are absolutely right, voting should be done with multiple options. More choice will set us free. > [@Rich\_Darine](#): > > The players don’t need no development control. Your double negative reads as “The players need development control”. > [@Geo\_Eclipse\_Oksaras](#): > > Inmates shouldnt be running the asylum You are calling the players inmates in an asylum? That is exactly the hubris that has plagued CCP for a long time. They forget people have a choice since they have had a few dedicated fans that would follow them into the abyss. Most people aren’t that crazy loyal and raising the price without anything meaningfull in return will drive those players away. And “trust us, it will be worth it” from CCP is an absolute concern. They have squandered enough money on developement dead ends, they would be saved by player input where they would drown if left to their own devices. > [@Cypherous](#): > > And how do you resolve the fact that some player groups are going to be so small that their issue is never fixed making them feel entirely ignore given there will literally be a vote showing them their issue is insignificant? Having the votes per category will solve that issue. And even if your specific idea falters, you can see it falter while looking at the suggestions that do make the cut. What topic is hotly contested and what issue gets the most love from the players. > [@Cypherous](#): > > Thats how votes work, people vote for what is in their best personal interests, it has always worked this way And yet if many people all vote in their personal interest, it will give a decent direction the majority would like to see traveled. > [@Cypherous](#): > > Who said anything about them needing cash badly, the price rise for subs is very long overdue, wages haven’t stagnated, operating costs haven’t stagnated, licensing costs haven’t stagnated > > The price should have gone up before now lol Making EVE the MOST EXPENSIVE MMO…the issue is player retention and the new player influx. EVE is bleeding paying players faster then they are replenished. Raising the price is extremely risky and would not be needed if CCP would simply do better and keep more of the players that give EVE a try. > [@Cypherous](#): > > Sure but thats not really going to happen for a niche game like EVE, its a complicated game and casuals aren’t going to be able to get in to it, the average person these days doesn’t even seem to use google to look for information anymore, you can’t be expecting them to do the required reading to play EVE lol All of that is failing on CCPs part as it has been for years. Any number of fixes would be great, but a decade of revamping the new player experience hasn’t really made a dent. Mainly because it’s the players making the game but a new player starts all alone. > [@Cypherous](#): > > They made a PvP game with actual loss, what were you expecting, habbo hotel? > > This style of gameplay doesn’t appeal to everyone and never will Everybody either gets to be ok with loss or leaves EVE. That is fine. Personally I would like to see more balance in the toolbox. Let me be helpfull to a random newbro BEFORE he loses his battleship in lowsec by sending him there in a frigate fleet of newbros with rotating FCs that take them by the hand on their way to their first PVP loss. Eve is about community, sure we all blow each other up, but we do so together. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2022, 1:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/82 "2022-05-02T01:24:44Z")
> [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > And yet if many people all vote in their personal interest, it will give a decent direction the majority would like to see traveled. The majority will be the massive null blocs that just want to improve their own investments > [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > Making EVE the MOST EXPENSIVE MMO Only based on subscription, like i said, if you played WoW or FFXIV you also would have had to buy full priced expansions fairly regularly, and you’ve had 18 years worth of expansions for free, WoW is $15 a month with you having to pay for expansions, EVE is $20 a month with you not having to pay for any expansions past, present or future, i mean unless you want to now have to pay for expansions and be locked out of content like the other MMO’s do But like i’ve said those get away with a lower subscription due to player volume > [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > All of that is failing on CCPs part as it has been for years. Any number of fixes would be great, but a decade of revamping the new player experience hasn’t really made a dent. Mainly because it’s the players making the game but a new player starts all alone. There is nothing CCP can do to force people to read and absorb complicated information, are you expecting CCP to make a 6 month long tutorial in order to teach people every single mechanic the game has lol CCP isn’t to blame for kids having no attention span and expecting instant gratification, they also aren’t to blame for peoples unwillingness to read and learn the game, there isn’t anything CCP can realistically do to combat the fact that EVE is complicated without absolutely destroying what EVE actually is > [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > Let me be helpfull to a random newbro BEFORE he loses his battleship in lowsec by sending him there in a frigate fleet of newbros with rotating FCs that take them by the hand on their way to their first PVP loss. Eve is about community, sure we all blow each other up, but we do so together. Yeah players already do that, you might want to look up EVE-Uni, thats not something CCP can really deal with nor would anyone rational expect them to, players make the content and players arrange things like this and there are things in place for people to learn those things, if they have the patience for it, i have no doubt that EU gets mentioned numerous times a day in the new player channel that all new accounts are forced to be a part of, but again you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink ---
**Author:** ![Pris\_Mei](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/pris_mei/32/309576_2.png) [@Pris\_Mei](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Pris_Mei)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/83 "2022-05-02T01:32:03Z")
I agree that CCP and in particular very senior management have suffered from enormous hubris, I mean World of Darkness, Valkyrie, Dust 514, Incarna, these all blew millions. In 2006 eve online had over 100k subscribers, they thought they were gods, they thought they knew best; > **[World of Darkness - the inside story on the death of a game](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf)** > > This April, the long-awaited multiplayer game World of Darkness was cancelled. Ian G Williams explores how bad management hubris wasted nearly a decade of work This just in… they didn’t know best, they were chaotic and scatter gun at best. Honestly, I don’t think much has changed, so I agree they have squandered their advantage, their cash and the momentum and goodwill of their subscribers year after year. Allowing more sticks to stir the pot is not the right answer though, a laser focus and a series of scheduled goals planned in advance would be a good start… ---
**Author:** ![Ran\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ran_yamaguchi/32/279235_2.png) [@Ran\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ran_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2022, 8:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669/84 "2022-05-02T08:39:25Z")
> [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > Like I said, I am not asking for control, I am asking more control be given to players. > [@Kaver\_Linkovir](#): > > More control for all subscribed players. Since the CSM frequently gets blindsided by CCP going off the rails in a way that bleeds subscribers. So you first deny you want more control and now are affirming you want more control. This is ridiculous. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/want-players-to-pay-more-then-give-players-development-control/359669.md?page=5)