# War Dec Abuse, Driving Small Alliances and New Players Away **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Created:** [June 15, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264 "2018-06-15T23:05:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/21 "2018-06-16T03:36:25Z")
> [@James\_Zimmer](#): > > I think it [the EULA] puts more responsibility on CCP to make sure systems in the game do not reward behavior that causes repeated losses for players who are doing what the average new player does Why? Your statement appears to be a _non sequitur_. Players not in breach of the EULA are doing nothing wrong. So, why should CCP protect new players from older players - who are doing nothing wrong? > [@James\_Zimmer](#): > > this is a business decision for CCP. Are new players or wardec corps … more important to CCP’s bottom line? I don’t know. And, given that CCP previously buffed alpha to **_stop_** too many of them becoming paying players, I suspect that _we_ don’t know the answer to that either. > [@James\_Zimmer](#): > > that doesn’t automatically mean [any] mechanics are good No argument there. > [@James\_Zimmer](#): > > I think that wardecs have similar high rewards with insufficient risk. That is a valid opinion, and possibly even a good point (I don’t know enough to comment). Nothing to do with griefing though. Or the EULA. Or even CCP’s bottom line. ---
**Author:** ![Transgirl](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/transgirl/32/81580_2.png) [@Transgirl](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Transgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/22 "2018-06-16T04:02:05Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > The only thing that discurages them from the game are people like you which lure them into a corp not able or willing to defend themselves and blame the game for their short comings. PREACH IT! ---
**Author:** ![Ildrara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ildrara/32/56659_2.png) [@Ildrara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ildrara)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/23 "2018-06-16T04:02:58Z")
@Andresoni_Janau that is what happens when you remove the watchlist. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/24 "2018-06-16T04:15:16Z")
Again, it’s not an act of war to declare open hostilities against anyone too weak to stand up against you, that’s called terrorism / piracy. There needs to be a difference. Concord needs to be able to recognize that difference. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/25 "2018-06-16T04:20:32Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > Yokai @Andresoni_Janau aren’t you supposed to buy skill injectors from your CEO to train into bombers and stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/26 "2018-06-16T04:20:48Z")
Cry some more ---
**Author:** ![James\_Zimmer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_zimmer/32/475633_2.png) [@James\_Zimmer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Zimmer)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/27 "2018-06-16T04:22:38Z")
> [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > So, why should CCP protect new players from older players - who are doing nothing wrong? Simple: So the new players stay. CCP already protects new players from older players who are doing nothing wrong by starting them in newbie systems in highsec. They _could_ start them in the middle of Delve, and the Goons could slaughter them, and reasonably justify that they’re not doing anything wrong because of the danger that cynos, enemy scouts etc. represent, but I think it should be obvious why this would be terrible for the game. > [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > I don’t know. And, given that CCP previously buffed alpha to _ **stop** _ too many of them becoming paying players, I suspect that _we_ don’t know the answer to that either. Fair. I don’t know, I only suspect it. ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/28 "2018-06-16T04:22:45Z")
With this type of intelligent opinion supporting piracy / terrorism, the law’s days are numbered. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/29 "2018-06-16T04:24:09Z")
With the type of dumb players these days no wonder the game is going downhill Also git gud or gtfo ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/30 "2018-06-16T04:25:26Z")
Maybe if you go ruin a new player’s day you’ll feel better, you seem salty about the idea of not being able to inflict yourself on others. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/31 "2018-06-16T04:27:51Z")
I was a new player too once upon a time guess what we did when we got decd. We moved base so the people coming for us had to travel.when they eventually came we were ready and won as far as isk efficiency against people decing us ---
**Author:** ![James\_Zimmer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_zimmer/32/475633_2.png) [@James\_Zimmer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Zimmer)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/32 "2018-06-16T04:28:34Z")
I agree with your sentiment, and a lot of other player do as well. May I suggest looking into The Wardec Project, which is a Discord dedicated to discussing improving wardecs: [https://discord.gg/taHeYtf](https://discord.gg/taHeYtf) ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/33 "2018-06-16T04:32:03Z")
> [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > it’s not an act of war to declare open hostilities against anyone too weak to stand up against you, that’s called terrorism Not in this game it’s not. There is no action captured by the term “terrorism” … it is all business. Even the “business” of piracy. And you have absolutely no idea if or how many of the 96 wars are for “legitimate” reasons; whatever those might be. > [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > There needs to be a difference. Concord needs to be able to recognize that difference. Why? You can apparently recognize the difference, so why don’t _ **you** _ declare a “just war” against the unjust war deccers? You might be correct, it is just your argument I don’t get. If it is an argument based on _ **balance** _ … now that’s a different question. But the misuse of power? That’s core to this game. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Engraver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dark_engraver/32/45178_2.png) [@Dark\_Engraver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dark_Engraver)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/34 "2018-06-16T04:32:21Z")
If you keep playing the victim and show yourself as weak and incompetent people will keep kicking you just to hear you moan ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/35 "2018-06-16T04:35:15Z")
Trolls and suicide gankers who are tired of being 1 shot can’t understand it, but there is a difference between piracy and war, and currently the war dec system is being abused for the purposes of wide scale piracy. If piracy and war are the same thing, there’s no point in having high security systems at all, but we all know that would result in a dead game in about 2 months. ---
**Author:** ![Kaivarian\_Coste](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaivarian_coste/32/413759_2.png) [@Kaivarian\_Coste](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaivarian_Coste)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/36 "2018-06-16T04:36:52Z")
At its core, Eve is a pvp game. So I don’t think anyone should be immune from wardecs or “piracy”. I remember the first time my Iteron got ganked in high sec many years ago. I had over 1b in the hold, and this was when a 30-day plex was only 350m. That hurt alot, and I thought I’d never live it down, but eventually realised that was what made Eve enjoyable. So if you’re being pushed around by a bigger power, learn to make friends or come up with a strategy to survive the wardec (e.g. relocating to a wormhole or high-sec island). As a corp/alliance, you should be organising for these things. ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/37 "2018-06-16T04:36:58Z")
> [@James\_Zimmer](#): > > CCP already protects new players from older players who are doing nothing wrong by starting them in newbie systems in highsec. Fair enough. Where and when does it stop though? At what point should noobs be forced to take off the training wheels? Neither of us has (yet) made a strong argument for **_high sec_** (?) war decs being either in or out bounds under those conditions. I just “think” it should be in. (Which is also the _status quo_.) ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/38 "2018-06-16T04:39:24Z")
Not talking about anyone being immune from war decs, talking about pirate / criminal type alliances using mass war decs to conduct wide scale piracy exclusively against the new and the weak with zero consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Lily\_Inkura](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lily_inkura/32/174143_2.png) [@Lily\_Inkura](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lily_Inkura)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/39 "2018-06-16T04:41:51Z")
> [@Andresoni\_Janau](#): > > there is a difference between piracy and war And there is in this game too … piracy triggers a police action (at least in hi sec) war does not. What is your argument that war should also be punished? ---
**Author:** ![Andresoni\_Janau](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andresoni_janau/32/240452_2.png) [@Andresoni\_Janau](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andresoni_Janau)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2018, 4:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264/40 "2018-06-16T04:42:35Z")
The issue isn’t the war mechanic itself, it’s the function that allows for mass declarations, a timer or cooldown would be an idea, limiting the number of wars that could be declared per day, so that a massive declaration like the one mentioned in the OP would take more time and effort to pull off. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-abuse-driving-small-alliances-and-new-players-away/83264.md?page=3)