# War Dec Roundtable - Saturday, January 5 at 1900 EVE **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [December 31, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505 "2018-12-31T00:44:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/61 "2019-01-10T13:21:02Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Yeah sure we’ll take your word over a PIRAT leadership guy 😂 > > 12/10 troll My little stalker cries again. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > PIRAT saying that their wars are mainly for profit is incorrect, **most of their wars are for easy passing targets.** Key part highlighted to help your limited grey matter work it out… ---
**Author:** ![Daoden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daoden/32/271841_2.png) [@Daoden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daoden)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/62 "2019-01-10T13:26:10Z")
If they don’t want to PvP then they won’t do anything in game then. Mining is a form of PvP because your removing resources another person may want. If they decide its worth attacking you over said resources they should be allowed to. Why don’t you get that? ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/63 "2019-01-10T13:42:54Z")
Keep insulting me petty keyboard warrior It doesn’t change the fact that I’ll take @Lord_Alarik 's word over yours anytime when it comes to his alliance 😂 Gf ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/64 "2019-01-10T14:15:42Z")
> [@Drago\_Shouna](#): > > Why is that so hard to understand? Anyone? Probably because the PvE in this game is boring and most folks can’t wrap their heads around the idea that people play EVE simply for PvE. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/65 "2019-01-10T14:18:28Z")
> [@Drago\_Shouna](#): > > So I’m wondering if the fact that they’ve been bought out has something to do with it, maybe the new owners were players or were reading the forums and prompted CCP to do something? The sale was announced after they started working on the problem. Basically, I think it was years worth of community complaints as well as a hard push from multiple past CSMs as well as the current one that got them to take a closer look at the metrics regarding war decs. Once they looked at the data, it became obvious they had a real problem on their hands and needed to do something about it. To be bluntly honest, I have seen absolutely no evidence of PA or the sale having any influence on any kind of game design stuff. I’m not saying it’s definitely not happening, but if it is, it’s so subtle that it’s not noticeable. ---
**Author:** ![Buoytender\_Bob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buoytender_bob/32/374377_2.png) [@Buoytender\_Bob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buoytender_Bob)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/66 "2019-01-10T16:50:42Z")
Don’t know if you were using the old “shotgun” approach with your reply, but my post stated multiple times that certain wardec mechanic changes “MIGHT” encourage more particpation by people. I fully realize that there are a certain people and groups who will refuse to accept having to participate in any PvP; incredibly strange since the game and development has always included player interaction. My suggestion was that any possible solution looked at should take in account the perception of fun, the feeling that they have a chance to be victorious, and reducing the “ante” the defender needed to put into a wardec. Sure, these changes will make no difference to you or those like you, but there a far more people who might at least try a game mechanic out if enough changes are made to even the playing field, both in fun and chances of success. Perhaps we will eventually end up in an almost war free HS, a condition I feel is both unlikely and detrimental to the core game, but we should never have any chance of removing ALL PvP from HS. Bots would run even more rampant, majority of the players would be semi afk ( or completely botting/afk), and the economy in game would be quickly disrupted for the worse. Anyone who considers my point of view to be either pro wardeccer or dismissive of those asking for reasonable game mechanic changes needs to work on their reading comprehension and reread all my posts. ---
**Author:** ![Tora\_Bushido](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tora_bushido/32/382053_2.png) [@Tora\_Bushido](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tora_Bushido)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/67 "2019-01-10T16:51:50Z")
I think the biggest issue here is, Eve has to many crybabies who want it 100% their way or not at all. ---
**Author:** ![commander\_aze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/commander_aze/32/209348_2.png) [@commander\_aze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/commander_aze)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 5:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/68 "2019-01-10T17:03:07Z")
It’s not exclusive to either side of this arguement either ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 6:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/69 "2019-01-10T18:27:13Z")
> [@Drago\_Shouna](#): > > So I’m wondering if the fact that they’ve been bought out has something to do with it I rather suspect the new product leadership to stear focus towards PvE, instancing, and general anti-sandbox gameplay. The new leaders publically admitted to be carebears with little PvP attachement. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/70 "2019-01-10T21:51:32Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Keep insulting me petty keyboard warrior > > It doesn’t change the fact that I’ll take @Lord_Alarik 's word over yours anytime when it comes to his alliance 😂 > > Gf So why were they botting then? You might want to think about that? I guess it was to be able to fund wars that they were not making a profit from? 🙂 I am not so sure I would take anything that a botting groups says as gospel… PS I turned notifications off on you, I only noticed your reply in passing. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/71 "2019-01-11T03:05:04Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > So why were they botting then i don’t know, I don’t care either besides, why generalize? ah, yes, it’s your M.O. to assume what people might or might not do 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 6:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/72 "2019-01-11T06:36:50Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > i don’t know, I don’t care either It was obvious that you don’t know, and as for not caring, you are happy to have such distortion in hisec even though it reduced the number of people available for you to war dec and have the people prepared to log in? While I was in the war dec discord you did express an issue with PIRAT and your forum war with a certain PIRAT character is very much known. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > besides, why generalize? I am being very specific, they were botting to pay for their wars, they were not profiting from wars to maintain that level of wars. That answers the point you tried and failed to make. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > ah, yes, it’s your M.O. to assume what people might or might not do 😂 People doing something that could result in a ban from the game, they had to have very strong reasons to do so. It speaks for itself. I find it a waste of time responding to you because when I do you start going into one sentence dig mode and personal attacks like above, my M.O, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/73 "2019-01-11T14:19:31Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > personal attacks Don’t act like you don’t talk down on me every single post. If you can’t take it, I suggest not dishing it 😂 > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I am being very specific A whole alliance isn’t _specific_ Not when said alliance has hundreds of members… > [@Dracvlad](#): > > your forum war with a certain PIRAT character is very much known. And what does this have to do with me not knowing or caring if PIRAT bots? Oh wait goalpost change as usual -3/10 trolling lol ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/74 "2019-01-11T16:05:59Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Don’t act like you don’t talk down on me every single post. Don’t reply to me then, because I am not a punch bag, I punch back, metaphorically speaking that is. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > A whole alliance isn’t _specific_ > Not when said alliance has hundreds of members… Except it was the then CEO… PS For you information I currently have an alt in a war dec alliance in hisec. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Probably because the PvE in this game is boring and most folks can’t wrap their heads around the idea that people play EVE simply for PvE. I just started taking out Blood Raider FOB’s and that was actually fun, I know people give CCP stick for them but it certainly rocked my boat. And I actually liked the fact that they mess with my day to day life in the system that I currently operate in. I had an awesome three days fighting them before working out how to take the FOB’s down. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/75 "2019-01-11T16:10:38Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Don’t reply to me then I can reply to whoever I want. Especially people who talk down on me. Or people that assume the things I do ingame. Inb4 you call for harassment and/or stalking > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Except it was the then CEO… Ah ok, I still don’t care. Plenty of bots in the sea 😂 It doesn’t change that most mercs dec en masse to get some isk out of the non-contractual wars. Plus more targets is never a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/76 "2019-01-11T16:20:36Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > I can reply to whoever I want. Oh dear not another round robin with Dom, of course you can reply, but if you have digs at people then expect: > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Especially people who talk down on me. Yes I talk down to you, because you talk down to me. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Or people that assume the things I do ingame. You have your opinion, somethings I agree with, some I do not. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Inb4 you call for harassment and/or stalking Well trying to get me a forum ban by bait posting and then calling in a dev was harassment. I did actually get legal advice on it from a lawyer friend, but before you get all smug about it, I did not pay for that advice and I have no intention of doing any legal action. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Ah ok, I still don’t care. So you don’t care that the then CEO of PIRAT achieved his dominance in hisec by funding it with botting. CCP Falcon did actually say that this was a bad thing. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > It doesn’t change that most mercs dec en masse to get some isk out of the non-contractual wars. Educate me on that part then, there are surrender fees, there are protection money. There are some merc contracts, but still if the dominate merc alliances CEO has to bot to fund it then it is not as much as you say it is. When I was doing my investigations on mercs about three to four years ago I was told that certain people were funding the large mercs by about seven different players at different times. The PIRAT guy was one such guy and he was botting. But I do not know what was agreed as surrender fees, as no one would talk about it, most hisec corps and alliances are not especially rich, but some are and they could definitely pay a lot of protection money. So yeah I could be wrong. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Plus more targets is never a bad thing. I totally understand it for that, though as you are quite aware I am in favour of small gang or solo war decs which are localised, I think mass war decs with area denial are very destructive, I want to see more focussed hunting type play. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/77 "2019-01-11T16:56:26Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I did actually get legal advice on it from a lawyer friend LOL This is gold > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Educate me on that part then, there are surrender fees, there are protection money. There are some merc contracts, but still if the dominate merc alliances CEO has to bot to fund it then it is not as much as you say it is. Those pay for most of the fees usually, as does loot from either ships or structures. Besides, who says the CEO botted for being able to dec wars? > [@Dracvlad](#): > > When I was doing my investigations on mercs about three to four years ago I was told that certain people were funding the large mercs by about seven different players at different times. Things change with time… What you gathered then was more likely than not invalidated lol > [@Dracvlad](#): > > So you don’t care that the then CEO of PIRAT achieved his dominance in hisec by funding it with botting Again, who said that? The guy was still logging in last I saw. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > CCP Falcon did actually say that this was a bad thing. Ok, if they’re so bad why isn’t CCP banning more of them? It’s not like there’s not daily reddit threads about bots in null or high even… Either way, this isn’t the thread to speculate about bots ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/78 "2019-01-11T17:27:21Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > LOL > This is gold Generally it is a good idea to know exactly where one stands in terms of recent hate type laws. I told you that so you don’t try to pull the same stunt again, because even though you can post appallingly you do have an opinion as a solo / small gang war decker and I don’t want to see you make a mistake there. So while you think of it as comedy gold I am actually being nice to you by warning you. But as I said I did not pay for it, no cost to me. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Those pay for most of the fees usually, as does loot from either ships or structures. I have never paid any surrender fee, I also never fell for those offers of useless help alt alliances. I know people do fall for them as I have seen them on wars. But does this also pay for the cost of war decking major nullsec alliances which cost 0.5bn. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Besides, who says the CEO botted for being able to dec wars? I suggested it was either for that or to kit his alliance up to totally dominate. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Things change with time… > What you gathered then was more likely than not invalidated lol Of course things change, never said otherwise. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Again, who said that? The guy was still logging in last I saw. Well that is a failure in terms of CCP. > [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > Ok, if they’re so bad why isn’t CCP banning more of them? It’s not like there’s not daily reddit threads about bots in null or high even… > > Either way, this isn’t the thread to speculate about bots Without any doubt PIRAT used that to gain a massive advantage as one of the top five (at the time) war deckers and drove many people out of the game with the proceeds from botting. CCP shot themselves in their own foot by their inability to manage hisec. And it is not speculation, it is proved in terms of PIRAT. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 5:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/79 "2019-01-11T17:46:23Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > it is proved in terms of PIRAT. By whom? Random reddit guy #25372? > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I am actually being nice to you by warning you. By trying to pull a show of force with a “I spoke to a lawyer” The proper term for that is Intimidation. And, well, it’s beyond ineffective hahahah. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505/80 "2019-01-11T19:05:12Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > By whom? > Random reddit guy #25372? Well he pretty much nailed it, the work he had done was excellent. Are you trying to say that players can not be trusted to report bots? Why does CCP have a reporting system in place then? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-dec-roundtable-saturday-january-5-at-1900-eve/130505.md?page=5)