# War decs should cost 10m additional isk for each outgoing war **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 14, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763 "2020-03-14T13:29:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/530 "2020-03-15T16:03:53Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Only because you disagree with it. No, it’s objectively a retard argument. “I am right, so my argument is right, so I am right”. That’s the level of stupidity you are showing. Literally. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > To me it’s biased if it’s being by subjectivity, not objectivity, and that article quite clealy is in line with the objective facts. That’s not a bias. A bias is what makes you consider something subjective as objective. eg I like cinnamon (will look later what it is), so I say “cinnamon is good for health” : I mix my personal taste for an objective truth. Every body has biased, because our perception of the world is limited by our senses, so all we have access to is our own interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/532 "2020-03-15T16:05:38Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Only because you disagree with it. Yes, thats how it works. An argument or discussion with at least two opposing views will be biased by whomever is presenting their side. An analysis of a situation however should not be biased, because it is being looked at subjectively rather than objectively. This article is not a subjective analysis. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You like one-sided PvP You are extrapolating but not quoting. I have never stated this. Editted cos I got objective and subjective switched, sorry ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/533 "2020-03-15T16:07:28Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Anderson, if you want me to respond to your points, learn to be civil. Calling BS when there is BS is civile. Making random accusation like you just did, however, is not. Go ■■■■ yourself. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > An analysis of a situation however should not be biased, because it is being looked at objectively rather than subjectively. edit : my b, did not notice it was a typo. An analysis is always subjective. It consists in interpretation of a set of data with a choice of rules to apply and a priority on those rules, therefore with a subjective set of rules. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/534 "2020-03-15T16:08:14Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > wardec groups targetting noobs and that having an impact on retention As you have to anchor a structure this has been dealt with, in a bad way but dealt with none the less. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/535 "2020-03-15T16:08:59Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > An analysis is always subjective. Yes sorry, mia culpa, I was typing too fast. Editted now. ---
**Author:** ![Mercurium\_Purum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mercurium_purum/32/331163_2.png) [@Mercurium\_Purum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mercurium_Purum)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/537 "2020-03-15T16:11:43Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > An analysis is always subjective. BS maybe in your shop ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/538 "2020-03-15T16:12:07Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > If somoene is presenting facts and another person disagrees they cn;t just scrab “but that’s biased!”. If there is room for disagreement, that means it’s not fact we are discussing but their interpretation. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > By that logic soemone who believe the earth is flat can claim any opposition to that view is bias. Flat earth is an opinion, not a fact (more precisely they can be theories, or much more complex positions than that). > [@Mercurium\_Purum](#): > > BS > maybe in your shop I explained why, so that claimed of your is actually BS. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/539 "2020-03-15T16:13:19Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I think it’s fairly obvious from the positions you take and the people you tend to side with. And I hang out with sub-normal people, yes? I mean, what you are saying is we aren’t normal or sane, right? Because your view is obviously the truth because… you said so. ---
**Author:** ![Mercurium\_Purum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mercurium_purum/32/331163_2.png) [@Mercurium\_Purum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mercurium_Purum)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/540 "2020-03-15T16:14:10Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > so that claimed of your is actually BS. irrelevant, you are using your own reference point as an absolute ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/542 "2020-03-15T16:18:01Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > you gain the most from fighting the people least able to fight back. In any other mechanic in EVE that would be questioned, but seems to be accepted for wardecs. Youve never been to lowsec/null or jspace have you? You take the targets that come up, in highsec where there are severe restrictions on who you can shoot you become incredibly limited in what you can do; whilst hunting targets with just a locator agent can work its no garantee that they will be online; FURTHERMORE as you can see PIRAT and other wardec groups dec just about anyone, even big blocs that could fight back. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/545 "2020-03-15T16:26:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > People disagree with facts all the time, that doesn’t stop them being facts and suddenly make them subjective. Then it means those facts are actually opinion. They are fact because they have been prove true or false, and thus there is no discussion about them. > **[Difference Between Fact and Opinion (with Comparison Chart) - Key Differences](https://keydifferences.com/difference-between-fact-and-opinion.html)** > > Nine significant differences between fact and opinion are discussed in this article in detail. One such difference is that the fact is an objective reality whereas opinion is a subjective statement. “earth exists” is a fact(even if we are in a matrix), and “earth is flat” is an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/546 "2020-03-15T16:26:17Z")
You said: > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s saying exactly what every normal sane person had been saying for ages at the time. So by definition, anyone who disagrees with the article is from the above. Which is something I can assure you you do not have the authority to decide. And you dont think this shows your bias? In what way is that a logical position? What facts are you using to support this claim? Dude, you are coming from a position of emotion because for some reason, you feel that learning how not to die shouldn’t be a part of the game. I disagree. That’s all there is to it. To stick to my promise of NOT having a 14 hr argument over the meaning of the word “the”, here’s the definition of bias. That’s all I have to say on the matter. # Search Results Dictionary bias /ˈbʌɪəs/ _noun_ noun: **bias** ; plural noun: **biases** 1. 1. inclination or prejudice for or against one person or group, especially in a way considered to be unfair. _“Contrary to what Lucas Kell has convinced himself, Ramona holds no bias for or against one person or group. He however, has made his feelies clear on the personalities and mental health of those who disagree with his position”_ ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/548 "2020-03-15T16:37:52Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This is not how the world works. People disagree with facts all the time. They don’t cease to be facts when someone disagrees with them. This is literally what “fact” means. > **[Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words](https://www.dictionary.com/)** > > The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years! > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > tell me what you think in EVE is an undeniable fact about which there can be no discussion. unrelated. But if you want : “Eve exists”. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/550 "2020-03-15T16:47:02Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I disagree. Now by your logic that is no longer a fact. No, you are ignoring facts. So of course you are wrong. There is no discussion, you are just claiming that you are an idiot. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > What it does not say is that it stops being a fact is some idiot disagrees with it, which is what you are claiming. It’s not what I’m claiming, it’s fact : if you can **discuss** about it, then it’s not a fact. If it accepts to have two different values of truth for two different people, then it’s an opinion. You disagreeing that Eve exists is not a discussion : it’s just an idiot spouting nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/551 "2020-03-15T16:53:10Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 10 years of experience there. well i have 13… and around 7600 more kills… and more than 5 solo… but ok, whatever dude lol ---
**Author:** ![Mercurium\_Purum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mercurium_purum/32/331163_2.png) [@Mercurium\_Purum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mercurium_Purum)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/553 "2020-03-15T16:59:49Z")
**Voice over** : _Will this game of last person standing continue ? How will this fierce forum fight end ? Will all our heroes make it through ? Come and see in next week’s episode “The Standoff”_ ![tenor](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/a/6a93d952336adc59e4247805f39fe0280d789d26.gif) The poor guy in the bottom right, that’s how many of the audience feel (fact) … Hence the comic relief. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/555 "2020-03-15T17:06:06Z")
> [@Namtis](#): > > They could make it so that if you fill your corp with players during paid wars, you must pay all new war bills it generates from changing tier or you or you can’t accept new members until bills are paid. Why on Earth would they ( CCP ) do that? You actually think they will make joining corps have financial consequences and as a result corps will close membership? What the ■■■■ is wrong with you? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/568 "2020-03-15T17:28:50Z")
It is quite extraordinary isnt it? I dont think Ive been on quitea …uh… free forum lol. @CCP_Aurora, Im fascinated to know why its permissable for threads to routinely get this out of control. I know C&P is lax, but GD has threads like this every week at least if not every few days. Just curious about the rationale. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/571 "2020-03-15T17:31:14Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Your definition of oblivion differs greatly from the normal definition. There are loads of wars. I do somewhat agree though, the changes they made to wars really weren’t well implemented. they’ve still got the core issue that there are veteran players who want to repeatedly kill newbies because it’s easy and there’s no decent reason for them to pick tougher targets. Wars have been completely gutted and are only relevant for fighting over structures. “Newbies” have been made 100% immune to being dragged into a war, and have to either deploy a 1B ISK structure (and click through a bunch of warnings) or join a war-eligible corp to be exposed to them. Like seriously, these changes were about as far as CCP can go without just completely deleting them from the game. Which I think would be a good thing at this point given how far they have fallen from the original idea of a mechanic where groups could fight each other to settle their difference. That is, if CCP could come up with an alternate mechanic for players to fight over structures which is the only reason they are still in the game. The “think of the children” crowd have won - wars as general content generation tools are dead - and they are out of cards. At least that is what I though until the OP started with this bleating. Wars are completely consensual now. They always really were, but now the game telegraphs exactly how you can remain immune from wars by just avoiding deploying a structure. The immunity has worked to force those bad mercenaries to pick on tougher targets - those larger nullsec groups that are structure owners is about all that is left on the table. If there is any issue, it is just that wars are useless for anyone now except those that want to fight over a structure in highsec, or are members of the apex group in highsec and are looking to harass clueless nullsec line members. I’d love it if CCP had decided to build in some reasons to fight with the changes, but they didn’t - they just raised the bar of entry again - so we get the completely predictable results. But at least the new players are safe under the latest system. So if we must discuss wars, let’s put that virtue signalling aside and come up with some ideas of how to make wars a better mechanic for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/588 "2020-03-15T18:01:39Z")
With all this whining about how noobs need citadels to function at all it makes me wonder how I have been doing just fine making countless billions of isk and I have never used a citadel for anything other than installing jump clones or buy orders in Perimeter. I still have yet to see how there is no choice for them but to make themselves war eligible by anchoring a citadel. It seems all these whiners want is to have everything but be invincible. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763.md?page=26) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763.md?page=28)