# War decs should cost 10m additional isk for each outgoing war **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 14, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763 "2020-03-14T13:29:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/671 "2020-03-16T14:20:30Z")
> [@Namtis](#): > > Sorry, the industrial index? Is that even a thing in hisec? Yes, the System Cost Index for industrial activities is a thing in every system. > [@Namtis](#): > > The system isn’t fulfulling its purpose. It just creates a situation where smaller or new corps, who don’t understand or don’t want to play the structure alt corp metagame, make themselves vulnerable to attack from war deccers whom they never wanted to fight and stand no chance against. I’ll agree with you the war system doesn’t succeed very well at generating content. It could be much, much better, and previous incarnations did seem to do better that the all-but-useless-to-generate-content version we have. But it does however succeed quite well at I guess its main purpose now - providing a system to fight over structures in highsec. I’m all for re-implementing such a system. However, whatever that replacement system is won’t allow for 100% immune structures in highsec as you seem to be agitating for. If you really want there to be even a chance of someone listening to you, I suggest you propose ideas that do not allow for perfectly safe player-owned structures in this game. That is a non-starter. I’ll leave you to it then. ---
**Author:** ![Tingz\_Tongz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tingz_tongz/32/285227_2.png) [@Tingz\_Tongz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tingz_Tongz)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/672 "2020-03-16T14:53:43Z")
The current war system does not well support new players having structures, correct. Some new players want to try out POS stuff and such, imho it should also be secure for new players to toy around with structure stuff in high sec. Hardcore should happen in null. Also it would be good if wars scale with member numbers.The more members a corp has,the higher the war bill should be. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/673 "2020-03-16T15:07:01Z")
Any change that would make structures immune to war, would be instantly abused by players who know the mechanics. When you remove the risk altogether, any drop in reward will be too small in comparison (unless you remove all rewards as well). ---
**Author:** ![Tingz\_Tongz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tingz_tongz/32/285227_2.png) [@Tingz\_Tongz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tingz_Tongz)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/675 "2020-03-16T15:58:31Z")
What is there to abuse if someone sets up a pos in highsec ? Im open for dialog,really interested to know what this abuse could be. Is nullsec so boring nowadays and has no advantage, that there would be abuse of a highsec pos ? Let players toy around with stuff in highsec, nullsec should be for pvp. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/676 "2020-03-16T16:09:49Z")
Define “new player”. How long do you think you have to be playing the game before you are flagged to be open to war-dec and have your structures destroyed? ---
**Author:** ![R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/r-0-b-0-c-o-p/32/474175_2.png) [@R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/R-0-B-0-C-O-P)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/677 "2020-03-16T16:10:45Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nope This is literally the case. In corp / alliance attributes there’s an entire line that supports this by saying “War not eligible” if they own no structures. When dropping a structure it is reversing this and making them eligible in the process. This is a known mechanic and not something shrouded by mystery or intentionally misleading. —— I’m not convinced that new players are making a habit of buying structures and pooping them down. Can anyone support this claim with data? Can you provide data that supports they are having their structures blown up? Let’s assume they are doing so and the structures are being blown up. Good, then the mechanic is working as intended. Wardecs are now exclusively tied to both parties owning structures. If a new player wants to try out structures they can literally use any of the hundreds littered around Highsec. I’m sure they could get in nice with a structure owner and even get a ACL admin rights or something. Is this difficult to understand? > [@QuakeGod](#): > > Define “new player”. How long do you think you have to be playing the game before you are flagged to be open to war-dec and have your structures destroyed? Obviously the term “new player” is a state of mind that the user can choose to fluidly use as they please. I’m sure that some of these people that have been playing for years are just “new players” I assume we ought to coddle them. ---
**Author:** ![Namtis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namtis/32/191261_2.png) [@Namtis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namtis)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/678 "2020-03-16T16:11:55Z")
> [@QuakeGod](#): > > Define “new player”. How long do you think you have to be playing the game before you are flagged to be open to war-dec and have your structures destroyed? No time duration. You become open to war decs once you try to claim space, moons, market fees by placing a larger structure - a market etc. ---
**Author:** ![R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/r-0-b-0-c-o-p/32/474175_2.png) [@R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/R-0-B-0-C-O-P)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/679 "2020-03-16T16:15:00Z")
> [@Namtis](#): > > No time duration. You become war dec enabled once you try to claim space, moons, market fees by placing a larger structure, a market etc. Haha that’s insane. So for the sake of your argument anyone that ever dies without having a structure is considered griefing a new player. Can I ask why you play this game? What drew you to it? ---
**Author:** ![Namtis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namtis/32/191261_2.png) [@Namtis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namtis)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/680 "2020-03-16T16:19:24Z")
No, I never said that. CCP removed openly war deccing anyone you want because it was harming the game. They tied it to structure ownership instead, in a blanket manner, which means the players who own a simple small structure that is not claiming anything or competing for market access or high end refining will suffer the exact same penalty as those who do offer these competitive services. And to top it all off, many of those who do get involved in the competitive side of structure ownership are in fact the ones who are circumventing the war mechanic by placing their structure in alt corps while their main corp or alliance reaps the rewards risk free. Changes are needed. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/681 "2020-03-16T16:23:46Z")
> [@Namtis](#): > > Changes are needed. Just One More Nerf ™ ---
**Author:** ![Namtis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namtis/32/191261_2.png) [@Namtis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namtis)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/682 "2020-03-16T16:25:53Z")
Did you expect anything different? Changes are made, the consequences are learned over time. If there is further changes to consider, those are made. There is rarely ever a single change that is going to fix something as complex as the war system. ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/683 "2020-03-16T16:26:42Z")
And thus the true intention is finally revealed. Utter and complete safety in high sec… ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/684 "2020-03-16T16:28:07Z")
I’d love to hear your thoughts on ganking, bumping, loot stealing, and “unauthorized mining” of player’s moons, though I’m already quite sure what your answers would be… ---
**Author:** ![Namtis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namtis/32/191261_2.png) [@Namtis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namtis)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/685 "2020-03-16T16:30:44Z")
> [@QuakeGod](#): > > And thus the true intention is finally revealed. Utter and complete safety in high sec… You mean like the large groups who understand the metagame and keep their structures in alt corps while their main corp or alliance reaps the rewards risk free? The only ones being penalized by the current system are players who don’t understand the how to circumvent the consequence, most of them probably newer players, and players who don’t want to get involved with using alt corps, prefer to use their main corp only. ---
**Author:** ![R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/r-0-b-0-c-o-p/32/474175_2.png) [@R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/R-0-B-0-C-O-P)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/686 "2020-03-16T16:31:29Z")
> [@Namtis](#): > > No, I never said that. > > CCP removed openly war deccing anyone you want because it was harming the game. They tied it to structure ownership instead, in a blanket manner, which means the players who own a simple small structure that is not claiming anything or competing for market access or high end refining will suffer the exact same penalty as those who do offer these competitive services. > > And to top it all off, many of those who do get involved in the competitive side of structure ownership are in fact the ones who are circumventing the war mechanic by placing their structure in alt corps while their main corp or alliance reaps the rewards risk free. > > Changes are needed. I agree that changes are needed. It’s not ideal as is, we can agree on that. Can you elaborate on what you would consider a “non-competitive structure?” ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/688 "2020-03-16T16:34:35Z")
> [@Namtis](#): > > With massively broken war dec system resulting in your group having a 97% ratio of kills to deaths. The system was not broken. The issue was that idiot highsec perma-victims ignored the principles of how to succeed in EVE, mindlessly flew into Jita despite being at war, and never bothered to do anything to organize opposition against the aggressors. CCP massively overreacted to something that was not a problem and already had existing solutions that people should have been using. > As I said, small structures can’t run markets. Small structures cannot compete with larger structures refine efficiency, so even if they do offer an industrial service, it will only be basic and never the best. If small structures are so inefficient and useless then why do you need one? Just don’t deploy one of these useless structures and you won’t be a legal war target. The reality of course is that you don’t think they’re useless, you’re just making a dishonest argument in an attempt to get the benefits of structure ownership while retaining immunity to most PvP. ---
**Author:** ![R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/r-0-b-0-c-o-p/32/474175_2.png) [@R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/R-0-B-0-C-O-P)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/689 "2020-03-16T16:37:31Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So? For individual members, they have no control over that. there have also beein instances of that being bypassed though exploits and there’s also the ability for people to infiltrate a corp to make them eligible. - New players that don’t want to engage in war should look for crops that boast being “ineligible for war”. - Those exploits were fixed - Corp CEOs should be careful with who they make directors > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why would anyone look for data to support this claim? It’s not a claim anyone has made, it’s a strawman you’ve made up. There’s people crying “but think of the new players” and I want to know how they come to this stance. Is it an issue if one per player has experienced their structure being blown up? What about 20? 100? This is why I asked about data. It can show where there are problems. Let’s not base all this off feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Namtis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/namtis/32/191261_2.png) [@Namtis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Namtis)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/690 "2020-03-16T16:45:40Z")
> [@R-0-B-0-C-O-P](#): > > > [@Namtis](#): > > > > No, I never said that. > > > > CCP removed openly war deccing anyone you want because it was harming the game. They tied it to structure ownership instead, in a blanket manner, which means the players who own a simple small structure that is not claiming anything or competing for market access or high end refining will suffer the exact same penalty as those who do offer these competitive services. > > > > And to top it all off, many of those who do get involved in the competitive side of structure ownership are in fact the ones who are circumventing the war mechanic by placing their structure in alt corps while their main corp or alliance reaps the rewards risk free. > > > > Changes are needed. > > I agree that changes are needed. It’s not ideal as is, we can agree on that. > > Can you elaborate on what you would consider a “non-competitive structure?” I see from your previous post that my suggested change to allow corps to have small structures and remain non war eligible as long as they are not directly competing for terrirtory, moons or market services seems to have struck quite the chord with you. I’m really not sure why it bothers you so much that you would call it insane, since you claim that PIRAT doesn’t really go after such corps anyway. It wouldn’t be because PIRAT does in fact go after these sort of corps a lot, would it? There are a few ways to do this idea. But here’s the one I suggest: Make all of the smallest structures non war eligible. They can’t fit markets anyway. Their refining ability is already limited, cannot compete with larger structures. If it’s an athanor, claiming a moon, it will make you war eligible. You can choose to use one as a war HQ, but then you will be war eligible. ---
**Author:** ![Mazooki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mazooki/32/189503_2.png) [@Mazooki](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mazooki)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/691 "2020-03-16T16:47:22Z")
Its up to CCP if they want to be another 15 years a niche game with the same players numbers, or if they follow WoW and at least 10 fold the player numbers. Those defending highsec and wardec gankers are shooting themself in the foot. Imagine 10 times the amount of player targets and 10 times the money making options in the game. 10 times more buddies for mining, pvp, trading, mission running etc. Lets see if CCP wants to be the same in 15 years as in the last 15 years or if they want to grow. If they dont evolve, who knows if the game still exists in 10 or 20 years. This game is known for being challenging and also known for loosing lots of new players. Whats the player drop off rate after playing this game a bit ? 99% ? Or just 90% ? 😙 Have fun, pew pew ! ---
**Author:** ![R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/r-0-b-0-c-o-p/32/474175_2.png) [@R-0-B-0-C-O-P](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/R-0-B-0-C-O-P)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 4:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763/692 "2020-03-16T16:49:10Z")
> [@Namtis](#): > > I see from your previous post that my suggested change to allow corps to have small structures and remain non war eligible as long as they are not directly competing for terrirtory, moons or market services seems to have struck quite the chord with you. > > I’m really not sure why it bothers you so much that you would call it insane, since you claim that PIRAT doesn’t really go after such corps anyway. It wouldn’t be because PIRAT does in fact go after these sort of corps a lot, would it? No. That’s not it. I just don’t believe in free lunches in Eve Online. > [@Namtis](#): > > Make all of the smallest structures non war eligible. They can’t fit markets anyway. Their refining ability is already limited, cannot compete with larger structures. If it’s an athanor, claiming a moon, it will make you war eligible. You can choose to use one as a war HQ, but then you will be war eligible. What about POCOs? I’d say those are extremely competitive. Structures can have use and value beyond their inability to fit market modules and perform tasks at less than optimal rates. > [@Mazooki](#): > > Its up to CCP if they want to be another 15 years a niche game with the same players numbers, or if they follow WoW and at least 10 fold the player numbers. > > Those defending highsec and wardec gankers are shooting themself in the foot. > Imagine 10 times the amount of player targets and 10 times the money making options in the game. > > 10 times more buddies for mining, pvp, trading, mission running etc. > > Lets see if CCP wants to be the same in 15 years as in the last 15 years or if they want to grow. > If they dont evolve, who knows if the game still exists in 10 or 20 years. > > This game is known for being challenging and also known for loosing lots of new players. > Whats the player drop off rate after playing this this game a bit ? 99% ? Or just 90% ? 😙 > > Have fun, pew pew ! Yes because historically changes that CCP has made to create a theme park environment and diminish the sandbox has totally worked and brought in heaps of new players to bolster the player count. Yes because these “WoW” elements are totally something that the majority of the community embrace. Eve Online is a niche game. It’s different and for good purpose. What good is a couple million players if they are shrouded by protection and safe spaces around every corner. Why would I want it turned into something like that? Eve Online rewards those that thrive through conflict - no matter if you’re a pvp or pve minded player or a mixture of both. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763.md?page=30) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-decs-should-cost-10m-additional-isk-for-each-outgoing-war/225763.md?page=32)