# War Mechanics Need to Be Reviewed **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 10, 2020, 7:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575 "2020-04-10T19:18:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/22 "2020-04-13T15:32:50Z")
> [@z0ra\_Berg](#): > > I think the bottom line is that you’re a politician and an asshole who lives in a fantasy world where the people complaining about the sad state of wars are evil people who need to feed on victims, or worse, you’re just saying it in hopes it’ll shut them up and get even bigger assholes to support you, because “you care for the victims”. Yes, yes. I’m an asshole because I don’t agree with you. The people complaining about the sad state of wars were complaining about the sad state of wars before these changes. The war dec changes were not made to make wars more fun for people engaging in them. They were made to stop war decs from driving new players out of the game. They’ve done that. You guys can play the game however you want. I only care when it drives new players away. It’s not doing that now, so op success. ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Kane](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/commander_kane/32/199755_2.png) [@Commander\_Kane](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Commander_Kane)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/23 "2020-04-13T16:14:56Z")
oh i dunno about that. Not having access to the data and looking in from external it seemed as the game became safer over the years with each “change” the population declined. Safety mean staleness and staleness meant boredom and then people move on. But yeah lets use “new players” excuse for the years of decline. These new changes is a step in the right direction for all part of space. I still think CSM is a cancer in EVE, even though you are not part of it, I sure hope you have no influence anymore. And hopefully… more meaning wardec mechanic can be looked at as well. ---
**Author:** ![Esturary](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/esturary/32/393585_2.png) [@Esturary](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Esturary)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/24 "2020-04-13T16:15:16Z")
I dont normally comment…BUT I agree the way of now skirting war decs with holding companies is quite lame indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/25 "2020-04-13T16:32:30Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Pretty sure SICO was linked to Brave like ICANP was. Absolutely not! ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/26 "2020-04-13T16:41:20Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > They were made to stop war decs from driving new players out of the game. **They’ve done that.** Is this true or did you make that up? I can not remember having seen CCP claiming this in writing. > [@z0ra\_Berg](#): > > @Nicolai_Serkanner Am I doing this right? Very right. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/27 "2020-04-13T16:50:05Z")
> [@Commander\_Kane](#): > > These new changes is a step in the right direction for all part of space. I still think CSM is a cancer in EVE, even though you are not part of it, I sure hope you have no influence anymore. And hopefully… more meaning wardec mechanic can be looked at as well. Unfortunately for you, I still have influence - if only because I actually log in every day. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/28 "2020-04-13T16:51:17Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Is this true or did you make that up? I can not remember having seen CCP claiming this in writing. CCP said, most recently on the Meta Show last week, that they have made significant progress in getting new players to remain in the game. Changes to the NPE, “fixing the stupid” and the war dec changes all feed into that. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/29 "2020-04-13T16:54:53Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > CCP said, most recently on the Meta Show last week, that they have made significant progress in getting new players to remain in the game. Great. I am glad to hear that. Wasn’t able to watch the Meta show. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Changes to the NPE, “fixing the stupid” and the war dec changes all feed into that. Did they say that or do you assume it is the reason retention numbers are better? ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 5:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/30 "2020-04-13T17:04:11Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > The world’s smallest violin is playing right now in my office. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I think the bottom line is that some folks are mad that there are large numbers of players they can’t war dec and kill when they feel like it. But that’s kind of the point of the war dec changes. Sums it up nicely. Sounds like this: '_■■■■ content. ■■■■ pvp sandbox gameplay. ■■■■ the economy._ _Just nerf hisec pvp into the ground so it can be a toddler pool._’ Explains the last 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/31 "2020-04-13T17:07:23Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Did they say that or do you assume it is the reason retention numbers are better? There’s no way to filter out what is specifically responsible - it’s part of the changes they made to help remove impediments from new players sticking around. It was only done because of the impact on new players, after all. That was what got CCP’s attention. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/32 "2020-04-13T17:07:57Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Sums it up nicely. Sounds like this: > > ’ _■■■■ content. ■■■■ pvp sandbox gameplay. ■■■■ the economy._ > > _Just nerf hisec pvp into the ground so it can be a toddler pool._ ’ > > Explains the last 8 years. Not at all what I said, but thanks for ignoring what I did say to craft a strawman. ---
**Author:** ![diamond\_milo\_jomitos](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diamond_milo_jomitos/32/197736_2.png) [@diamond\_milo\_jomitos](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/diamond_milo_jomitos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/33 "2020-04-13T17:19:34Z")
Please keep going @Brisc_Rubal my vial of deccer tears are almost full dont stop now ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/34 "2020-04-13T18:14:08Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > There’s no way to filter out what is specifically responsible - it’s part of the changes they made to help remove impediments from new players sticking around. It was only done because of the impact on new players, after all. That was what got CCP’s attention. Thank you. So, it was indeed an assumption. I am not saying it isn’t true, but we do not know unless CCP tells us it is. There could be completely other reasons for the retention numbers to have become better and the change to the wardecs could have had no influence at all. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/35 "2020-04-13T18:16:27Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Thank you. So, it was indeed an assumption. I am not saying it isn’t true, but we do not know unless CCP tells us it is. There could be completely other reasons for the retention numbers to have become better and the change to the wardecs could have had no influence at all. It’s not an assumption, it’s an inference based on the data. CCP spent all last year working on the NPE, fixing war decs, making tweaks to the UI and making the game more accessible to new players, and all of those changes are working, according to them. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/36 "2020-04-13T18:25:38Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > It’s not an assumption, it’s an inference based on the data Okay. I am not sure you can come to the conclusion without actually seeing the data, of which I am sure you didn’t see it, which to me means you’re assuming. But nevermind the semantics, because: _“all of those changes are working, according to them”._ > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > and all of those changes are working, **according to them**. Now we can agree the changes to the wardecs must have had an impact on retention rates. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/37 "2020-04-13T18:28:34Z")
> [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Okay. I am not sure you can come to the conclusion without actually seeing the data, of which I am sure you didn’t see it, which to me means you’re assuming. But nevermind the semantics, because: _“all of those changes are working, according to them”._ Go watch the show and you can draw your own conclusions about whether I’ve faithfully represented what they told us. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/38 "2020-04-13T18:30:51Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Go watch the show and you can draw your own conclusions about whether I’ve faithfully represented what they told us. I am sure you have faithfully represented what they told us, and I am glad the result is better retention because the game really needs it. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/39 "2020-04-13T19:32:32Z")
Not Frostpacker though, we live by the Lazer and die by the Sword. We don’t hide for noone. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 4:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/40 "2020-04-14T04:14:38Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > These corps have taxes, too. That they’re paying them to the corp and not sending it down the memory hole doesn’t really matter. Yes this matters. When the figure at the top cares more about collecting the tax from new players that were obtained by sending out loads of unsolicited mails it is a problem. Are you just posturing for the sake of it? There’s been plenty told publicly about these groups. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > ACL access doesn’t matter either, because you can identify which corps own the structures they’re using and you can war dec them, and they can’t use these corps to defend them. Except it does matter when the structures cost peanuts and there’s systems littered with them. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > The fact that those groups have thousands of characters means their leadership is doing something right. Does that reflect on the quality of the experience or rather that within minutes of creating a pilot, a new player find himself spammed with a mail telling him he should join them. It would be great they say! Lots of things that new players want to hear! If you look at the average player count, there’s no way that the first mentioned group is helping CCP retain new players. I will be the first to say that Eve Online isn’t a game for everyone, but it’s real comical how we had this revelation that wars were driving new players away… yet here you are presented with an alliance that exhibits predatory and neglectful behavior, but you choose to make an exception and praise them. ---
**Author:** ![Faylee\_Freir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/faylee_freir/32/439750_2.png) [@Faylee\_Freir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Faylee_Freir)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575/43 "2020-04-14T19:22:36Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Realistically there have been both increase and decreases to safety over the years and separately numbers have gone down over the years. Of course it’s natural for you to assume that the changes you dislike are the cause. Its not we’ve seen nerfs and buffs to both sides of safety and destruction that have resulted in anything resembling balance or equality. The entire game as a whole has suffered from CCP pandering to safety and a seriously lacking development strategy. So yes, any decrease in player count you can attribute to either CCP’s inability to provide fresh content while continuing to take the hatchet to remove or invalidate various playstyles and activities in game AND/OR CCP’s track record on focusing to make the game safer and more friendly to a PvE-minded player. Some of the issues aren’t direct and intentional, but they are changes that we as players could see how it would ruin the game and it’s meta, yet CCP and the CSM knows best, eh? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why? It would be the same in an NPC corp except their ISK is going into a bin. Except in an NPC corp you don’t have motivation to be a scummy extortionist to players that you’re the leader of. They are two completely different things and will lead to very different experiences. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Destroy them then. Is that the purpose of wars now? To serve as the highly exciting gameplay of bashing undefended structures that reward peanut covered poo as a reward, only to be replaced by another cheap structure? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This happened before these changes too. I would then urge CCP to look at the data as they claimed to have with wars. Look at the nature of their predatory unsolicitated spam and compare it to their member count and how many have assumed stopped playing the game. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > How can you even connect those two? You have no idea what impact that specific group has on retention and no possible way to infer that from the data available. Yes I can. I know what gamers want. Eve Online, a game reviled as being difficult… a game where stories of theft, elaborate scams, awoxing, metagaming, and all other flavors of normally undesirable behavior that is normally against the EULA in most other games… this game I describe. You’re telling me that with the above description that the players CCP is drawing in don’t want those things? They want isolation and safety? Sure some do but they ought to be let down by the experience CCP should be providing. If they are intent on playing anyway then they are the type of PVE-minded players that can deal with adversity and are a welcome ornament in the games ecosystem. Like really? I wonder how many players CCP gets to join or create accounts if they send out pictures or videos of a Rorqual in action. No, just no. There’s no plausible way you can defend this so don’t bother posting. You are in fact as my boy Donny Trumperino says, “WRONG!”. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/war-mechanics-need-to-be-reviewed/231575.md?page=3)