# Wardec - mechanics to eliminate players **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [February 17, 2018, 7:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890 "2018-02-17T19:20:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/224 "2018-02-19T20:46:36Z")
Yeah, keep telling yourself that. ---
**Author:** ![Kato\_Szafarchek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kato_szafarchek/32/431271_2.png) [@Kato\_Szafarchek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kato_Szafarchek)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/225 "2018-02-19T20:50:29Z")
> But dentistry has nothing to do with boxing. If eve is boxing and the boxers are the pvp’ers then everyone else still participates in the boxing match. Even the audience because they paid for tickets. You’ve missed his point completely. You all are so intent on saying that absolutely anything and everything is PVP that its clouded your ability to judge many activities in this game. EVE isn’t a “PVP-only” game, not in the way that the layman defines as PVP. Most casual players will think of PVP in the idea that it’s warship vs warship fighting it out for any number of reasons to the death. When you tell people PVP, they’ll think of games like Team Fortress 2, League of Legends, World of Warships, World of Tanks, Battlefield 4, Counter-Strike, need I go on? They won’t think of an economy-management game as a ‘PVP’ game. And that is what EVE Online is at its very core. -You have consumers who are constantly demanding products that must be produced, not found. -Materials must be gathered on an industrial scale that no other game can match. -The materials must be processed and refined. -The refined materials must be manufactured into final products. -The products are sold to the consumer to be used. -The consumer uses the product to run various activities with PVP being the most prevalent way that the products are consumed (through the loss of ships). If this game is so much PVP in the way you all are so keen on praising, I should be able to undock a cruiser, warp to the nearest low-sec, and jump into a good old-fashion brawl in no time. But that’s not the case since any ship that’ll stand a chance in a fight is not free. The average player has to do something outside of PVP to earn the ISK to be able to fight. Because of that and everyone is so obsessed with Zkill, players are essentially scared to jump into any fight they may have a chance of losing, both because of the loss of a ship they can’t replace for free and the stigma of a red mark on their killboard. You have a set of gaming ideological lens stuck so firmly to your head that you constantly try to compare apples to orangutans. The more I see this mindset play out in the forums the more I’m seeing the root cause of why so many people I’ve talked to who are interested in the game but decline to play call the community anywhere from lunatics to outright psychotic and sociopaths. ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/226 "2018-02-19T20:58:01Z")
So you’re telling me people competing for resources, or for data sites, or 0.01isk’ing or any of that stuff isn’t pvp? Lul ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/227 "2018-02-19T21:00:15Z")
> [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](#): > > Using this concept, I think that the only thing that isn’t PVP in EvE is silent ship-spinning. Wrong, according to everyone else you’re still doing PvP because while docked you’re denying other players the opportunity to destroy your ship. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/228 "2018-02-19T21:09:57Z")
> [@Kato\_Szafarchek](#): > > They won’t think of an economy-management game as a ‘PVP’ game. Obviously they dont play Hearts of Iron. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/229 "2018-02-19T21:10:44Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I get Datacores from my Research Agents (strictly PvE) > > I get materials for manufacturing munitions by reprocessing loot from NPC’s (strictly PvE) > > I don’t sell the munitions I make, I use them myself against NPC rats (strictly PvE) > > None of that involved any other players. Then the cycle starts over and continues. And what is your metric of success? ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/231 "2018-02-19T21:18:26Z")
That’s _their_ definition. 😄 OTOH… if they are specifically hunting for you, you _could_ just be taunting them (a second time!) just by sitting there. 🤔 Meh… that’s even more of a stretch than I’m willing to take, though if you were trash talking at the time, I might push it closer into the PVP category, by my definition. It doesn’t honestly matter until we can all decide of a single definition for EvE PVP. * * * CSM, Bring this up in your next meeting! Get us an ‘official’ definition. –Requesting Gadget ---
**Author:** ![Dom\_Arkaral](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dom_arkaral/32/462611_2.png) [@Dom\_Arkaral](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dom_Arkaral)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/232 "2018-02-19T21:18:37Z")
> [@Alpha\_Slow](#): > > Dumb Arkaral How innovative Never heard that one before /s Seems all you can manage to post are personal attacks, or insults, or pretty bad attempts at insults lol And after you ask yourself why no one likes you, or agrees with you… lol ---
**Author:** ![Rexxar\_Santaro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rexxar_santaro/32/420075_2.png) [@Rexxar\_Santaro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rexxar_Santaro)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/233 "2018-02-19T21:28:11Z")
> [@Dom\_Arkaral](#): > > You forget the index factor thingy that is changed by player research. That is a form of vague pvp since like someone mentioned, you can boost that index so that others spend more while you spend less elsewhere… > > So yes invention and research is still pvp WUUUT? Really? Is this a baby debate motto? I’m bigger than you; I’m 1 thousand bigger than you; I’m 1 million times bigger than you; I’m million-million of millions times bigger than you… I want to put the last brick to your EVE PVP monument tho. Do you know why EVE is a PVP game? Just because I logged in. I’m using some server memory and CPU timers. As a result I’m creating some lags, I’ll interact with you with lags and retarded UI. Sometimes I’ll bring a few thousands of capsuleers to PVP you with TiDi. The thread is about Wardecs. They are a PVP category, which is exploited in such a bad way. We trying to debate, to have a conversation why? and how? it’s should be changed and balanced on community level. You just demonstrating how casuistry works. That’s all. > Casuistry (/ˈkæʒuɪstri/) is a method in applied ethics and jurisprudence, often characterised as a critique of principle- or rule-based reasoning.[1] The word “casuistry” is derived from the Latin casus (meaning “case”). > Casuistry is reasoning used to resolve moral problems by extracting or extending theoretical rules from particular instances and applying these rules to new instances. The term is also commonly used as a pejorative to criticize the use of clever but unsound reasoning (alleging implicitly the inconsistent—or outright specious—application of rule to instance), especially in relation to moral questions (see sophistry). > The agreed meaning of “casuistry” is in flux. The term can be used either to describe a presumably acceptable form of reasoning or a form of reasoning that is inherently unsound and deceptive. Most or all philosophical dictionaries list the neutral sense as the first or only definition.[2][3][4] On the other hand, the Oxford English Dictionary states that the word “[o]ften (and perhaps originally) applied to a quibbling or evasive way of dealing with difficult cases of duty.” Its textual references, except for certain technical usages, are consistently pejorative (eg. “Casuistry destroys by Distinctions and Exceptions, all Morality, and effaces the essential Difference between Right and Wrong”).[5] ---
**Author:** ![Ivan\_Bloodguard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ivan_bloodguard/32/49954_2.png) [@Ivan\_Bloodguard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ivan_Bloodguard)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/234 "2018-02-19T22:46:56Z")
Another fabulous debate covering semantics, speculation and opinion. Well done, chaps. Thanks for the good read. ---
**Author:** ![Saeger1737](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saeger1737/32/459629_2.png) [@Saeger1737](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saeger1737)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/235 "2018-02-19T22:49:08Z")
Sounds like OP wants wardecced ---
**Author:** ![Roth\_Amschel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/roth_amschel/32/225712_2.png) [@Roth\_Amschel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Roth_Amschel)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/236 "2018-02-20T00:15:01Z")
I’m not saying “everything is pvp”, pretty sure I never said that anyway because I don’t think that’s true. But everything outside of staying docked and “ship spinning” (which is essentially not even playing the game) exists in the shadow of “competitive gameplay” at the very least. Which is where I think the breakdown of communication is happening, whether or not that is “pvp”. Which, yes, is semantical at best and philosophical at worst. Is trying to beat someone’s high score in Galaga pvp since you’re actively working against another persons score? Or no since you’re not directly playing against that person in real time? How many licks does it take to get to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop? The world may never know. I’m personally not invested in either point of veiw to be honest but I think it’s a mistake to dismiss the competitive nature of all aspects of the game. Or at the very least the possibility of “non consensual” online interaction. Even if that interaction is just being undercut on the market or having your mission wreck ninja salvaged. ---
**Author:** ![Saeger1737](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/saeger1737/32/459629_2.png) [@Saeger1737](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Saeger1737)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/237 "2018-02-20T01:01:48Z")
> [@High-Sec war decs](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/high-sec-war-decs/56810/73): > > Suggestions give me feedback By the way I love war ---
**Author:** ![Abyss\_Azizora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/abyss_azizora/32/15938_2.png) [@Abyss\_Azizora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Abyss_Azizora)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/238 "2018-02-20T01:55:33Z")
> [@Lady\_Ayeipsia](#): > > > [@Abyss\_Azizora](#): > > > > I have to admit, threads like this would be infinitely less common is there was just a single other option in the mmo genre for a space game with a more pve oriented design. > > The problem is, such a game would be boring. EVE survives becausr of the player driven market and the hands off approach of CCP. In a more PvP centered game, you wpuld have less cycles of destruction. Without such, you would need NPC buy orders to help control the market and economy. It would simply become a grind/raid fest. > Kill 5 space wolves and return thier tales for x gold. Mission complete. Rinse and repeat till you level up to go kill 10 space slimes for their goo. It would just be another WoW clone or the like. Right to the point everyone is doing the max raid for the max gold for the minimum amount of fun till they get bored and never log in again. > > It’s the cycles of destruction and construction that makes EVE work. And yes it can suck when you are on the destroyed side, but pick yourself back up, figure out what you did wrong, and try again. It’s what we all did and why we are still here. It’s also why EVE works. I’m not arguing any of that, I’m simply saying it would be nice to have such a game so that people can have what they want, and you wouldn’t have PVE players complaining here, or PVP players complaining over there. A dead (read: monopoly on) space mmo market is good for noone except CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Alpha\_Askiras](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alpha_askiras/32/51661_2.png) [@Alpha\_Askiras](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alpha_Askiras)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 2:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/239 "2018-02-20T02:11:14Z")
I’m too lazy to read all the comments, but if you’re quitting i’ll hold onto your stuff for you 🙂 just contract it all to me ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/240 "2018-02-20T02:19:20Z")
> [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > Your enemy doesn’t have to agree to the victory conditions you set for yourself for you to achieve victory. YOUR enemy doesn’t have to agree to the victory conditions YOU set for YOURself to achieve victory. This could even leave us with a situation where both sides declare victory, when each side is playing his/her own game, with its own conditions for winning. > [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > ‘Games’ are not the only thing you can win. It’s possible to be successful at any action, but the concept of “winning” is somewhat specific to games. > [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > If your victory condition is bringing home veal for dinner, that’s still a win. But that’s a 1-player game or I suppose you could be hunting in a group or what you should really do is get online and Google to see where the nearest grocery store is that sells it. They might even deliver! > [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > You ever actually been hunting? Sort of. > [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > [Hunting] can actually be quite competitive, kinda like fishing as well. It’s just killing things. Who or what do you suggest you are competing against? > [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > But there are a range of circumstances that allow us to accept EVE as a game, just as there are a range of circumstances that allow us to call a victory against another player a win The game you are playing in your head is . . . in your head. And you can play whatever mindgames you want. It’s your game and your life. But here you are trying to tell others what they should think about your actions, that we should give you a participation trophy every time you destroy any 'ole ship, that you are a competitor because you scored a point in a match in a game you made up in your head and pretended some other, random person you ran into was on the other team and beat them over the head with your tennis racket. Here is my counter-argument: It’s not competitive. It’s not a ‘game’. You aren’t a ‘winner’. It IS PVP. > [@Remiel\_Pollard](#): > > EVE isn’t even a game at all 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 3:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/241 "2018-02-20T03:01:07Z")
1. you are competing against your fellow hunters 2. EVE is a game. stop being pedantic. that’s all you’re doing. it’s not a counter argument to say ‘it’s not a game’. neither is air combat, and you can still win a dogfight 3. yes, i am a winner. my killboard has more green on it than red. 4. stop getting your friends together to flag my posts. i know it hurts being wrong, but you’re just gonna have to suck it up, princess. ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 3:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/242 "2018-02-20T03:05:44Z")
I didn’t quote anything out of context. I’m demonstrating what makes everything you think is PVE to be actually/also PVP. Reprocessing in a station is a tool to produce minerals that are going to be put on the market for other players, in which you’ll be competing with other players for price. The player who buys it will be making ships/modules/something that further adds to the economy and/or the PVP. Manufacturing munitions that’ll be used for what, exactly? And the isk generated from missions adds isk into the economy, lowering its value for everyone, until it’s removed from the economy byssinks (taxes, war dec fees, etc). Purchasing LP store items? Which will be used for?.. Everything, every single little thing in this game, is PVP, and/or there to drive and/or facilitate PVP. There are no exceptions. None. There is nothing that is exclusively PVE. Not one thing. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 5:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/243 "2018-02-20T05:26:29Z")
Oh man, I was done with this thread and you just had to drag me back into it again. Those are some pretty big blinders to view all content currently available in game is only there to supposedly facilitate PvP action. Doesn’t matter to me how you or anybody else generalizes the various activities available in this game, I know which ones I engage in are affected by PvP and which ones aren’t. What you call a PvP tool, I call PvE content. Years ago those activities were called specialized career paths that have now been simplified and dumb downed for Instant Gratification. It all boils down to how those activities are conducted and what they’re used for. Some players use the content to facilitate PvP, others just use the content expressly for PvE. So according to your interpretation, even Project Discovery is PvP. Sorry pal, I just don’t view it like that. ---
**Author:** ![Remiel\_Pollard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/remiel_pollard/32/242272_2.png) [@Remiel\_Pollard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Remiel_Pollard)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 6:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890/244 "2018-02-20T06:02:38Z")
I didn’t drag you back into anything. I corrected you. Nothing in this game is exclusively PVE. It doesn’t matter what a player thinks they’re doing, all that matters is what they’re actually doing. It’s that simple. Your PVE affects other players, whether you like it or not. For the record, Project Discovery isn’t even PVE. It’s not a ‘versus’ anything. It has no effect on EVE in any way, and gives you no tangible in-game benefits. No, cosmetics don’t count. So call it PVE if you want, but any of the PVE in this game that reaps tangible benefits affects other players to some degree, and regardless of the minutia of that degree, it is still PVP as well. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-mechanics-to-eliminate-players/57890.md?page=13)