# WarDec System Change Failure **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 7, 2019, 1:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093 "2019-06-07T01:00:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 7:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/172 "2019-06-09T07:05:54Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > So at this point, I’m not sure, aside from allowing more people to be completely isolated from wars, what the changes have achieved. Absolutely nothing. Last week I could fly from Catch to Amarr without coming across a single wartarget. In BRAVE we were used to be decked by numerous parties simultaneously and you were certain to be killed when visiting high sec. After the changes; not more than one wardec at a time. CCP killed wardecs completely. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 9:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/173 "2019-06-09T09:41:03Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > …and again, that is something that many others do think is a bit of an issue. If one or two groups is having a massive effect on HS and forcing people to basically play a game of “how do we avoid these monsters” I mean, you avoid them by just you know, not deploying a station, its literally that simple, i can avoid them all day 😛 > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > I still think the simplest way to greatly neuter this is by just introducing a sliding scale on the number of WarDecs a corp can open at the same time. Tweak as needed in the future. Except as i’ve already pointed out, neither of these solutions actually have any effect, ISK is not a problem to these groups and forcing a hard cap on the number of active wars just has them farm it out to multiple arms of the same whole, in the end you don’t actually change anything, and it doesn’t actually need to be changed because the simple fact you keep seeming to ignore is, you don’t have to open yourself up to wardecs at all ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/174 "2019-06-09T11:30:50Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > i can avoid them all day …and people avoid of points of Eve stupidity by just not playing any more. That works great too. > [@Cypherous](#): > > ISK is not a problem Unlikely. By the 11th WarDec, the fee would be just over 100M and over 1.6B for the 15th. It’s always about the money. > [@Cypherous](#): > > them farm it out to multiple arms of the same whole Which would drastically reduce those arm’s coverage, number of combatants and introduce time zone issues and other logistical problems…not to mention ruin their KBz. > [@Cypherous](#): > > the simple fact you keep seeming to ignore is, you don’t have to open yourself up to wardecs at all The simple fact is that you keep claiming that’s the issue and it’s not so…it’s not about being open to WarDecs so how about you bring the goalposts back to where they actually are. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/175 "2019-06-09T11:55:56Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > …and people avoid of points of Eve stupidity by just not playing any more. That works great too. Except in this case i can still play and literally avoid wardecs by just not deploying a structure, my gameplay isn’t hampered in any way > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Unlikely. By the 11th WarDec, the fee would be just over 100M and over 1.6B for the 15th. It’s always about the money. I think you massively underestimate how much ISK some people have 😛 > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Which would drastically reduce those arm’s coverage, number of combatants and introduce time zone issues and other logistical problems…not to mention ruin their KBz. Not really, goons always managed fine before they were able to combine their multiple arms in to one, null already does this with joint ops between alliances and it hardly ruins their killboards so yeah > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > The simple fact is that you keep claiming that’s the issue and it’s not so…it’s not about being open to WarDecs so how about you bring the goalposts back to where they actually are The goal of a war is to shoot people, are you saying this goal has somehow moved or changed? there isn’t anything to fight over in high sec, never will be, the goal has remained the same, to facilitate explosions, are explosions still happening? Thing is its people like you who seem to think something has changed when infact it hasn’t, nobody moved the goalposts, they were always in the same location from the beginning, all they did was remove grief wars, which i am fine with being removed, you’ve yet to prove why any of your proposed changes need to happen and i’ve proven why they don’t, so you either need to come up with an actual argument for your case or you need to accept that you just created yet another terrible idea 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 12:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/176 "2019-06-09T12:00:26Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > i can still play and literally avoid wardecs by just not deploying a structure, my gameplay ..and again, not talking about you or me… > [@Cypherous](#): > > I think you massively underestimate how much ISK some people have I think you massively overestimate how much people are willing to spend for no action.😛 > [@Cypherous](#): > > joint ops between alliances …and again, not what I was talking about… > Thing is its people like you Ok…enough of this. I’ve been polite and ignored your lies, misrepresentations, goalpost moving and goading but I’m done. Bye. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/177 "2019-06-09T12:06:37Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > …and again, not talking about you or me… Literally any player CAN do the same, if you do not deploy a station, you cannot become the target of a war, i’m not sure which part of this seems to be causing you confusion > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > I think you massively overestimate how much people are willing to spend for no action. Far from it, they have so many active targets they don’t really care about the few not giving them kills, they will still wardec everything under the sun if they were allowed to, and they did, wars used to have a scaling cost, it didn’t do anything to reduce the number of wars > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > …and again, not what I was talking about… Yes it was, because that is what it would basically become, Marmite #1-8 all in their own alliances all working together to achieve the same goals, hence why i said it won’t actually do anything > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Ok…enough of this. I’ve been polite and ignored your lies, misrepresentations, goalpost moving and goading but I’m done. Bye. To be fair you were “done” when you started this thread, where have i lied even once? where have the goalposts ever been moved? Everything i’ve quoted has been fact and just because it proves you wrong you claim its moving the goalposts, provide some evidence 😛 But you’re right that this discussion is done, you lost from the start ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Javelin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jake_javelin/32/173224_2.png) [@Jake\_Javelin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jake_Javelin)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/178 "2019-06-09T13:21:46Z")
**HQ** RF Timers 48hrs max Full power HQ 4 days max Low power HQ 2 days max Kudos on the cool down 2 week timer upon destruction of HQ. WarDec Mechanics do need a tweek. WD should be a commitment of active focused game play. [Add’s more realism of how actual wars work]. Cut HQ RF timers down to no more than 48 hrs each, full power HQ lasts 4 days undefended. Require HQ defense to prolong the WD. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/179 "2019-06-09T13:33:36Z")
> [@Jake\_Javelin](#): > > **HQ** RF Timers 48hrs max > Full power HQ 4 days max > Low power HQ 2 days max These times aren’t correct. The times are outlined in this devblog: > **[Upwell 2.0 - Structures Changes Coming On February 13th! (UPDATED) | EVE Online](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/upwell-2.0-structures-changes-coming-on-february-13th)** > > This dev blog has been updated with changes to the plan made with help from the EVE community’s comments, discussion, and feedback. The biggest changes from the previous version of the dev blog are: The removal of the Standup GTFO module from the... > [@](#): > > Under this new system a random unscouted attack against a full power Upwell structure could lead to a set of reinforcement timers with a maximum combined duration of 14 days in highsec Dumb if you don’t hack the timers and plan the attack, but a full power citadel in highsec is still a week to kill with timers hacked. ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_Javelin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jake_javelin/32/173224_2.png) [@Jake\_Javelin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jake_Javelin)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/180 "2019-06-09T13:35:58Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > These times aren’t correct. That’s right they are not. Its what they should be changed to specifically only for designated WD HQ in HiSec. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/181 "2019-06-09T13:39:04Z")
> [@Jake\_Javelin](#): > > That’s right they are not. Its what they should be changed to specifically only for designated WD HQ in HiSec. Yeah I agree. Itr’s a weakness in the system at the moment. If we declare war against someone and they manage to reinforce to the final timer, we have the option of ending the war, in almost all cases before the final timer will be reached. Our HQ won’t really be at risk, unless the defender then turns around and declares war against us, which won’t happen. So yeah, the timers should be shorter to make sure we can’t dodge the final destruction. The more wars someone declares, the harder it is for them to do that, but then, they have the numbers to defend adequately anyway and their HQ(s) won’t be at risk anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Mega\_Face](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mega_face/32/359765_2.png) [@Mega\_Face](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mega_Face)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/182 "2019-06-09T16:31:00Z")
There’s essentially no benefit to being in an alliance anymore. All the exclusive money printing content has long since migrated from the NS monopolizers to just within reach for the casual bear. The issue is that there’s an expectation from some members to gain all the traditional benefits of being in a large alliance or a subsidiary of one while waving away all the potential risk they have to deal with on their way back to HS. Groups like Marmite and PIRAT exist to keep that mentality from running completely rampant. I can’t believe for a second that there’s a single genuine concern here for actual PVP because that died decades ago. NS haulers just don’t want to deal with their pipes being contested 23 hours out of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/183 "2019-06-09T17:17:18Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > Its purely binary for anyone not lacking a little sense, There is actually no sensible reason not to allow corporations to opt-in for free, as long as the potential targets are _also_ required to have opted in. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/184 "2019-06-09T17:22:12Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > There is actually no sensible reason not to allow corporations to opt-in for free, as long as the potential targets are _also_ required to have opted in. Yeah except it literally doesn’t work, without a HQ you’re not providing the other side with a valid way to end the war, so no, both sides need to have a structure in order to perform wardecs on random targets, if you don’t want that then find a group who want a mutual war and go from there, or join FW ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/185 "2019-06-09T19:58:30Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > without a HQ you’re not providing the other side with a valid way to end the war, This is part of the journey the game is on unfortunately. It sucks, but is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/186 "2019-06-09T19:59:49Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > This is part of the journey the game is on unfortunately. It sucks, but is what it is. You mean its on the path to making sure wars have an actual end goal and to prevent people just being able to start war without risking anything? 😛 Because thats a good path lol ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/187 "2019-06-09T20:01:46Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > You mean its on the path to making sure wars have an actual end goal and to prevent people just being able to start war without risking anything? Without risking anything? What, they can just get kills while docked? ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/188 "2019-06-09T20:39:33Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Without risking anything? What, they can just get kills while docked?. I think you’re misunderstanding, i’m against being able to start wars without having a station deployed. aka how it should be and how it currently is ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/189 "2019-06-09T20:48:57Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > I think you’re misunderstanding, i’m against being able to start wars without having a station deployed Nah I got that. It’s what the game is now as it continues to become softer and fairer. Just don’t see how anyone can not risk anything, even in the previous mechanics. But that discussion is one of the eternal discussions on the forum, so it’s all good. I know where you’re coming from, just have a different view. But yes, in this softer, fairer game, CCP agree. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/190 "2019-06-09T21:19:49Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > [@Cypherous](#): > > > > I think you’re misunderstanding, i’m against being able to start wars without having a station deployed > > Nah I got that. It’s what the game is now as it continues to become softer and fairer. > > Just don’t see how anyone can not risk anything, even in the previous mechanics. But that discussion is one of the eternal discussions on the forum, so it’s all good. I know where you’re coming from, just have a different view. > > But yes, in this softer, fairer game, CCP agree Not sure how it counts as softer, you’re required to risk a 500mil+ structure in order to fight a war, it means we don’t just have random people starting random wars in hopes of killing random haulers in jita lol ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093/191 "2019-06-09T22:52:48Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > Not sure how it counts as softer, you’re required to risk a 500mil+ structure in order to fight a war, Not really. A lot of Corps have re-organised to have their structures in a holding Corp that has 1-2 characters in it. Everyone else does their thing with complete immunity from the wardec mechanics, and with access to the structures. If we declare war against the holding Corp, they just lose their structure. No one switches into the Corp to defend, or to attack. They all continue to do their thing with immunity from the mechanics (and good on them for doing so, because that’s the reality that CCP has created now). So we kill the structures, which are cheap enough to just replace straight away and the holding Corp can do nothing against our HQ. We don’t really risk anything and even if there was a defender that wanted to take out our HQ, because the timers favour us being able to end the war without it ever being at risk. Meanwhile, large 2500 person alliances are farming ISK with complete immunity from wars, but no cost of NPC corps. In that way, the game is softer and it’s the direction CCP development has been headed on for the last 3-4 years now. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093.md?page=8) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/wardec-system-change-failure/165093.md?page=10)