# Warp to Zero - Autopilot - Real Need or Fallacy? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 15, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825 "2019-10-15T14:59:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Natasha\_Otomeya](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/natasha_otomeya/32/163589_2.png) [@Natasha\_Otomeya](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Natasha_Otomeya)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2019, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/64 "2019-10-16T23:38:01Z")
I was forgetting bookmarks but then I never used to use many. Those were the days, missions in Jita and loads of junk as mission rewards. ---
**Author:** ![F3ND1MUS](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/f3nd1mus/32/377706_2.png) [@F3ND1MUS](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/F3ND1MUS)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/65 "2019-10-17T13:04:16Z")
How about auto pilot warp to 0 for Omegas only! yeah! ---
**Author:** ![Von\_Roshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/von_roshi/32/164083_2.png) [@Von\_Roshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Von_Roshi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/67 "2019-10-17T22:08:03Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > …or everyone could learn from their mistakes and not support a niche of hunting people who either don’t care or know enough to even bother taking measures to prevent themselves from falling trap to the same mistake again and again. > > you might as well be arguing to make lowsec into another hisec because it isn’t fair that someone will try to kill you for entering a pvp specific zone…if you fit your ship like garbage, load it up with loot, and set autopilot to go get drunk and high all night and come back and feel disappointed you died because of it you should wait until your sober the next day and try to learn from your mistakes what you probably did wrong. > > I know it’s hard when your literally minutes new to the game and completely unaware of the fact that people figured out a way to make some use of your lack of experience, knowledge or abundance of ignorance and recklessness just to get easy kills and profit from looting you then you are really not trying that hard or aren’t old enough to understand this isn’t a game for 6 year olds who are too much of a bunch of brats to search the internet for obvious everyday common sense about playing eve or at the very least able to accept that sometimes you don’t know what your doing and then you make mistakes and then you either learn about them and never let them happen again or complain about it on the forums because you are too lazy and believe your entitled to have the game changed to cater just to your specific needs. > > Are these really the kind of players who are going to keep this game alive. > > My lord what will I be doing in this game anymore when the marketing focus of this game is children who operate as the loot fairies of their parent’s credit. > > It really isn’t that hard, I learned all on my own and I didn’t even need to make those mistakes and then I never had to suffer those consequences because I see all the people who make victims of themselves because they don’t want to make the least amount of effort to play this game yet will go to endless efforts to whine as a result of their ignorance and incompetence to do anything about it themselves. > > Damn, maybe I am getting a little out of hand over all of this but honestly I am mind blown everyday looking at these ganks in high sec on the killboards, what the heck is it with these people who do nothing to prevent themselves from falling to one of the first things every player should learn about this game and over and over… > > Play the game a little longer and learn a few things, you will get over this hurdle like the rest of us. I remember when I thought ganking and scamming was the root of all evil but honestly it really isn’t that hard to learn how to avoid these things in high sec where you will find it happens most. > > Please seek help and self improvement and save us all the agony of hearing about how you died day one and am so sad you did not know everything about this game when you stepped in front of the guns of threatening players holding piles of cash in clear plastic bag. > > Autopilot in high sec should be reserved for making return trips in empty ships fit to max passive tank that makes you not worth bothering but it isn’t impossible either with the right knowledge to also ship your valuables little by little this way in a manner that isn’t going to make you an easy target. > > It just takes more time, so don’t make it riskier for yourself if that is the only way your willing to do things. > > Please I beg ye, learn a little, just a little itty tiny bitty bit about this game before you go off about how horrible it is for your knowing nothing about it when something bad happens. It doesn’t matter if you think people using autopilot in empire are somehow bad. You think they deserve to be ganked. The fact is that the feature is there, people will use it, and it will cause a lot more people to get ganked than would have happened if autopilot warped to 0. Now if CCP are happy with customers using autopiliot in hi-sec, getting easily ganked because dumb auto pilot doesn’t warp to zero, and then losing subscibers as a result, then I guess they are happy for players to quit. Perhaps autopilot should warp to 0 in hi-sec but not in nullsec. ---
**Author:** ![Von\_Roshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/von_roshi/32/164083_2.png) [@Von\_Roshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Von_Roshi)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/68 "2019-10-17T22:18:52Z")
There is around 40 people in Aufay. 30+ of them are all gankers from the same alliance. Most of them seem to be just 2 players. They gank freighters that pass by using catalysts. It’s easy for them because some people use autopilot and autopilot doesn’t warp to zero. Otherwise they’d have to actually work to achieve ganks. Ah well, I guess EVE didn’t need those subscribers anyway. That’s the common response isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/70 "2019-10-17T22:37:23Z")
Someone flying a freighter is not a noob. In addition they have the choice to use many means at their disposal to avoid the gank. The fact that they die due to their pure laziness being solo loot pinata AFK to 30+ people whom are at the keyboard shows they deserve to die. You are proposing that an AFK solo person should be able to win vs 30 at the keyboard. That is complete imbalance and does not belong in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/71 "2019-10-17T23:35:12Z")
> [@Von\_Roshi](#): > > I guess they are happy for players to quit. Players may quit for a myriad of reasons. Quitting a spaceship shooting game because some other player shot your ship is simply ridiculous. Anyone quitting the game for _that_ reason was playing the wrong game for him to begin with… ---
**Author:** ![Von\_Roshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/von_roshi/32/164083_2.png) [@Von\_Roshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Von_Roshi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/73 "2019-10-18T00:41:04Z")
> [@Algathas](#): > > Someone flying a freighter is not a noob. In addition they have the choice to use many means at their disposal to avoid the gank. The fact that they die due to their pure laziness being solo loot pinata AFK to 30+ people whom are at the keyboard shows they deserve to die. > > You are proposing that an AFK solo person should be able to win vs 30 at the keyboard. That is complete imbalance and does not belong in the game. 30 players at the keyboard?? Don’t make me laugh. More like 2 guys with a dozen alts each. Have you even seen their names on the killboard link? ---
**Author:** ![Von\_Roshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/von_roshi/32/164083_2.png) [@Von\_Roshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Von_Roshi)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 12:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/74 "2019-10-18T00:42:15Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > There are probably hundreds of reasons that can bring about an occurrence of players wanting or actually quitting this game. > > Can’t call yourself a real Eve player until you have had at least multiple moments in time during your game play that you wanted to actually quit playing eve. > > What makes a real eve player is getting past those moments and becoming a better player. Ok sure. If EVE is ever down to just “real” EVE players and other players have quit the server population will have sunk considerably. ---
**Author:** ![Algathas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algathas/32/397229_2.png) [@Algathas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algathas)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/75 "2019-10-18T00:47:46Z")
Well, even if it is 2 guys with 30 accounts like you say then they should still win. 2 guys not AFK vs 1 AFK person should win. 30 at keyboard accounts vs 1 AFK account should win. The _choice_ to be lazy is there and such a choice has consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Ravid\_Bheskagor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ravid_bheskagor/32/472687_2.png) [@Ravid\_Bheskagor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ravid_Bheskagor)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/77 "2019-10-18T10:29:53Z")
No auto pilot warp to zero. [https://forums.eveonline.com/c/technology-research/player-features-ideas](https://forums.eveonline.com/c/technology-research/player-features-ideas) ---
**Author:** ![celeru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/celeru/32/244516_2.png) [@celeru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/celeru)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/78 "2019-10-18T13:49:43Z")
> [@Knowledgeminer](#): > > EvE isn’t realistic Take a look at the physics behind the “mechanics” and get back to me. \*I never said Concord wasn’t part of the game. You have child-like arguments. ---
**Author:** ![celeru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/celeru/32/244516_2.png) [@celeru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/celeru)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/79 "2019-10-18T13:51:23Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > why would I not use it ? What year does Eve take place? Why wouldn’t it be available? ---
**Author:** ![celeru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/celeru/32/244516_2.png) [@celeru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/celeru)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/80 "2019-10-18T13:57:30Z")
> [@Gowa\_Hyasyoda](#): > > why this game is so awesome They say that cream always rises to the top…but so does 💩 . ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/81 "2019-10-18T15:12:50Z")
> [@celeru](#): > > Take a look at the physics behind the “mechanics” and get back to me. You don’t know what you’re talking about nor what being realistic means. You’re conflating some game mechanics using a physics model with EvE being realistic. Spaceships move in EvE using a physics model that resembles the way submarines move in the sea, for example, but that’s still completely unrealistic because that’s not how spaceships would move in space in real life if they existed. Are you even able to understand this? And then there are all the other things that don’t even follow a RL physics model at all, the very warp thing discussed here being one of them. You don’t understand how that’s completely unrealistic either, do you? > [@celeru](#): > > I never said Concord wasn’t part of the game. No, you only said suicide ganking was never an intended game mechanic, which CONCORD and the ability to illegally shoot other players in high sec from the very beginning proves wrong… > [@celeru](#): > > You have child-like arguments. You mean arguments even a child would be able to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/82 "2019-10-18T17:42:07Z")
So back to the “real need or fallacy?” argument. (Sorry to interrupt.) As a design element, the current EVE travel and AP setup says: - Travel is frequently necessary - Travel in EVE is generally a boring, time consuming repetitive activity that requires fairly frequent but absolutely dull user input - EVE is supposed to be a harsh environment; thus the boring long repetitive nature of travel is used by CCP, gate campers, gankers et al. to help bring about situations where an inattentive or AFK / AP pilot is at risk of loss The ‘need or fallacy?’ question boils down to: is this type of design good for the game? It certainly benefits gankers and gate campers. It certainly annoys people who get lured by the option of auto-pilot and then ganked along the way. “You can choose to sit at the keyboard and have a long, low-quality interaction with an uninteresting element of the game, or you can opt for convenience, use auto-pilot, take _even longer_ to get where you’re going but at least now you can do something more interesting than play the game.” That seems like a poor design choice. It would be better to create PvP opportunities by giving players interesting and engaging content rather than boring them into inattention or creating a situation where travel will take so long that they’d rather turn on AP and take their chances while they go do laundry. Overall I’d say “ **real need**?” - No. We’ve lived with it for over 10 years now, there are ways to deal with it, and it’s just gotten a little better. But “ **fallacy**?”. Also no. Because it’s simply one more non-player friendly (except for the small population of gankers) barrier that gets between EVE and players actually doing something enjoyable within the game. At this stage they would probably be better off sticking with the 10km limit, and then adding a Navigation skill for Auto-Pilot that cuts off 1km per level trained. Limit Alphas to level 2. That would strike some balance between convenience, cost and risk. ---
**Author:** ![Von\_Roshi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/von_roshi/32/164083_2.png) [@Von\_Roshi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Von_Roshi)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/84 "2019-10-20T02:08:28Z")
“Real work” Known as sat in chair, clicking mouse buttons and arguing with strangers on the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Bl00dyAngel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bl00dyangel/32/268145_2.png) [@Bl00dyAngel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bl00dyAngel)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 9:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/85 "2019-10-20T09:48:16Z")
What if we intruduce Autopilot Navigation Lights on the Ships, and make autopilot warp to 0. At the Moment, there is no use for the Autopilot, so why not try things out. With the lights blinking on the autopiloted ships, active players can see, which ship is on autopilot. I guess it’s pretty balanced to the risk vs reward scale. The Risk is, it’s still dangerous to use the autopilot, because it’s obvious you are not active in the moment. But you spare time, and time is a high value in eve. With time we can do intressting stuff on other accounts. We can use it with our friends and familes etc. And if you tansport some thing cheap, because of concordokken, you will end up on your highsec destination safe. Maybe you can even travell 0.0 afk with a bubble save interceptor. But it will not brake the game. And please let us use upwell jumpgates with the autopilot. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/86 "2019-10-20T10:10:01Z")
> [@Von\_Roshi](#): > > Just make autopilot warp to zero. It will reduce the amount of ganks taking place. Arguing otherwise suggests to me that you are a ganker. Bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![Knowledgeminer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/knowledgeminer/32/422883_2.png) [@Knowledgeminer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Knowledgeminer)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/88 "2019-10-20T14:46:42Z")
> [@Bl00dyAngel](#): > > What if we intruduce Autopilot Navigation Lights on the Ships, and make autopilot warp to 0. > […] > The Risk is, it’s still dangerous to use the autopilot, because it’s obvious you are not active in the moment. Let me get this straight… You think the risk that not warping to zero creates is merely that it tells others you’re AFK and that whether you warp to zero or some distance doesn’t matter otherwise? You don’t really expect anyone to take your post seriously, do you? I mean, certainly not anyone that knows anything about this game… ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825/89 "2019-10-20T17:17:20Z")
This whole thread is full of clueless, inexperienced ~~wannabes~~ people. Why would you single out that one person? That’s discriminating! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825.md?page=3) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/warp-to-zero-autopilot-real-need-or-fallacy/195825.md?page=5)