# We should attract the old players back to space battles **URL:** \ **Category:** Warfare & Tactics\ **Created:** [July 16, 2025, 10:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249 "2025-07-16T10:45:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/42 "2025-09-05T14:58:20Z")
You missed my point completely. That’s why You confirm it while trying to argue with me (and belittle in the process 😆 ). See: > [@Inxentas\_Ultramar](#): > > There used to be super interesting social and mechanical aspects to living in lowsec. Aspects that people outside “wouldn’t understand”. That’s what I’m talking about. Nobody knows (“understands”) =\> nobody would join the game and pay money to go and live in there and feel this. It might happen that someone already playing the game will find himself living in low-sec as a result and will love it. But nobody will _come_ to the game with this in mind. Wormholes and Wormholers are another group of players who won’t make advertisement money back for CCP. Nobody cares about them. Even null-sec carebears who get their visits from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/43 "2025-09-05T16:08:13Z")
Simply not true. When the mechanics weren’t as broken as they are now, those Lowsec groups could recruit new players. Players who had no idea that this kind of playing EVE is ten times more interesting and more rewarding than being part of some big fat nullblock. And it absolutely is. And when they recruited someone, this player _stayed for years_. _Paid for years_. Subbed multiple accounts over the years. Told others about how crazy good this game is. Having a space aside from the tidi-slugfests and permagrind mindsets of the big alliances, away from the egomaniac leaderships and pages full of alliance rulesets what you have to do, what you aren’t allowed to do, what you need to skill and buy and where and when to fight or not to fight… that was an advertising for the game all by itself and it created _loyal_ customers. When CCP threw that out of the window, the great decline began. Which you can witness at every corner of EVE. If it wouldn’t be for the mass-alpha-alts, massmultiboxers and botters, EVE wouldn’t even have half the players online each day than it had a decade ago. This “focus on the big nullsec blocks” was a mistake, from the beginning. And it shows greatly. Constant growth comes from the roots. From the new players that have to find environments and niches where they enjoy playing how they like to play. And the more monopolized the game is, the less interesting for new players it becomes. It’s very very simple to understand. When I joined this game back in 2009, there was already the saying “The big Nullsec alliances are the cancer of this game, because they suffocate everything they come in touch with. Keep your distance!”. That was advice from back then long-term players, and they were sooo right. If CCP wants to have a growing playerbase again, they _have to break the power of the blob_ and create areas again where new and small groups can play the game without the big groups being able to easily, convienentily and profitable engage them. ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/44 "2025-09-05T17:15:48Z")
It’s funny. You are arguing with _something_ which is not what I have written and what I would declare. 😆 I’m here since December 2009. And I’ve lived in HS, in low-sec, null-sec and WHs. Know a bit about it (from the past, obviously). And my picture of what’s wrong with the game is different. if we go this path it will be personal experiences vs personal experiences. So, I stop right here. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2025, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/45 "2025-09-06T00:40:32Z")
nullseccers dont undock. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2025, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/46 "2025-09-06T01:29:35Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > And my picture of what’s wrong with the game is different. No problem with that, everyone has different experiences and comes to different conclusions. > [@March\_rabbit](#): > > if we go this path it will be personal experiences vs personal experiences. Yeah, so all personal issues aside, we can just focus on _technical facts_ and _undeniable logic_. Those facts are: - in 2009 (lets use this, since we both joined the game in this year) it took - from the moment a cyno was opened to the moment where the reinforcements were able to shoot at targets - at least 40-45 seconds. Today it is like 10 seconds. → this _undeniably_ means: a small gang that is dropped by a large gang will suffer much more losses. - in 2009 a _magnitude_ smaller number of players even had access to Capitals or BlackOps. → this _undeniably_ means: Hotdrops were _a lot_ rarer. In fact you could play in Lowsec for months, doing roams, camps, baits, brawls - without being hotdropped by anyone - in 2009, T3 Cruisers didn’t exist. Their ability to Fleetboost, RemoteRep, Brick- or LongRangeTackle, ExtremeNeut and HeavyDPS is far beyond the capabilities that the classic ReconFleets had → the dropped gang cannot even hope to “fight back”, they simply cannot break anything any more and will lose their entire fleet instead of 1-2 people before they could flee or disengage - in 2009, basically less than a handful of groups had a Titan to bridge a whole gang on top of you. And if they did, you could flee before they were through (see point 1). Over the years, groups like Snuff and Shadow Cartel littered the whole Map with Towers used as stagingpoint for Hotdrops. And today it’s only less used because now that drops are so quick, enough pilots have finished skilling BlackOps, so no Titan nessessary any more to jump your 30 guys on a single Drake → the Number of total pilots that get cynoed around via Jump-Travel is _magnitudes_ higher than back then So. I will stop at this point, because I could keep writing for hours. All of the above is reason why Small and _independent_ groups can hardly live in LowSec any more. And that is a _net loss_ for the game. Because those players _do not want_ to join large blocks, bow to established powers and follow rules made by others. They _don’t want_ to be part of some anonymeous blob, they want to play with a handful of good friends, specialize into extremely skillfull smallscale engagements instead of competing in F1 instakill fleets. EVE needs _diferent areas for different playstiles_. And in each areas, there should be advantages for each. For nullsec, let people have their huge many-hundred-player battles, big empires bashing each other, capital- and supercapital fleets clashing into each other. For lowsec, small- and medium gangs should have the advantage, because cynotravel is delayed to a degree that the larger groups can still dominate an area (hold or deny structures, industry, defacto system control), but they _cannot_ stop mobile roams with a quick drop any more. THEN, both playstiles have their area, and players can freely chose which one they like more and just join groups who live in their preferred area. Instead of being forced to be either prey on the run or vasall. ---
**Author:** ![Meridan\_Night](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/meridan_night/32/488304_2.png) [@Meridan\_Night](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Meridan_Night)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2025, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/47 "2025-09-06T21:41:47Z")
> [@Yengwayo\_Zembutoo](#): > > they also didn’t want us “crabbing” mining or otherwise engaged in reasons many go to null, and were EXPLICITLY told that if we did we would be pod killed and kicked. Yeah, this only happens during CTAs. Not even during regular alliance fleets. CTAs only. For example, if your alliance is fighting to save their Keepstar, it is really bad form to be out in the belts with your mining ship at the time. You will get a lot of benefits from being in a nullsec alliance, but you gotta give something back. It’s not difficult to grasp that, is it? You like using that high-yield refinery? You like using that low-cost Sotiyo? Then do your part by helping defend it/the infrastructure/alliance that keeps it online. You don’t even have to know how to PVP or do anything other than listen to what FC tells you to do. You don’t usually even have to spend that much ISK on a ship to fly in these fleets. They always have a shortage of ceptors and logi. In every fleet. And those are cheap. It’s not ‘crazy’ to expect the members of the alliance to put their personal mining/PVE/whatever on hold for a couple of hours to help out when needed. It is crazy to expect to use the alliance infrastructure/stations and not help defend them when they are attacked (as an example. CTAs can have various reasons). ---
**Author:** ![Inxentas\_Ultramar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inxentas_ultramar/32/385922_2.png) [@Inxentas\_Ultramar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inxentas_Ultramar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/48 "2025-09-09T14:42:05Z")
You think I… belittled you? How? Not with those hisec/nullsec tropes I hope. I mean if that’s the case, then wow yeah I should have doubled down on those. Lowsec / WH and other _personal effort-and-merit-based_ playstyles simply foster more respect then joining the flock. Thought we had that sense of humor in common but that’s gone too now? I do agree with your post. Running the sites I ran in the ships I flew wasn’t something advertised to players. You needed to stumble upon our corp to run that content, as we’d simply NBSI your ship if you tried. ---
**Author:** ![Inxentas\_Ultramar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/inxentas_ultramar/32/385922_2.png) [@Inxentas\_Ultramar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Inxentas_Ultramar)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2025, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/49 "2025-09-09T14:47:30Z")
I knew there would still be likeminded people in the game. You simply get what made lowsec attractive for players. I found it so much fun that I spent most of my Eve carreer in lowsec doing exactly that. Our group was a tad smaller (40+ people) and we had friends as well as enemies. Sometimes I think back at those times and how impossible it would be to recruit the way I did back then… at gunpoint, mostly. ---
**Author:** ![Spyke\_Austrene](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spyke_austrene/32/448706_2.png) [@Spyke\_Austrene](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spyke_Austrene)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2025, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/50 "2025-09-16T21:31:33Z")
One fact and one feeling as a response to this The fact is, and on a positive side, that, watching last stream of CSM oz, from the data they analyzed they could point out that the old players are actually coming back. Yes it’s true, seemingly every bigger patch spikes returning players and they also stay longer. CCP seems to be not completely off track in creating new content and whatnot. Now the feeling. Based on what i observe in the channels: [begin emotional replies trigger] One should try turn off the Killmail API, and measure the impact on the amount ships destroyed. I know its a discussion and blahbla postings will follow now, saying that this all aint true and we are not like that…. But lets measure it, i have a feeling, at least the ppl i know, they really afraid of loosing ships or feeding ships to fun because of zk. We could really measure that, Or at least turn if off for a defined timeframe weekends. I know a lot of ppl who would feed and play were it not that they are going to get recorded while failing. [end rage reply trigger] Greets ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 6:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/51 "2025-09-17T06:48:19Z")
> [@Spyke\_Austrene](#): > > One should try turn off the Killmail API Thb, they should turn off or significantly delay _many_ APIs in this game. Yes, I know people claim how awesome all those third party tools are and how convenient they make everything and what a great community service they are… BUT EVE is a game best played with “fog of war”. With an environment that consists of “incomplete information” when making decisions. Todays tools are so powerful, that I am not sure any more if they generate more content than they prevent. Especially intel gained from killmail feeds, location feeds etc. pp.. I still know EVE from times without all those Market Browsers, Mappers, route-checkers, warning-bots etc… and it was better. It felt more like truly exploring space and not really knowing what’s behind the next corner, needing to adapt on the fly to what is happening. All in all, those tools have lead to a playstile that became more and more automated-intel reliant and more and more risk-averse. I personally would like to see a test with all API features disabled. Just to see what happens and to just fly around “in the dark” again like 2 decades ago. But I also believe that I would be part of a minority here and most people wouldn’t want to give up all their fancy intel tools. It would probably generate a huge shitstorm and lead to people not logging in again for that duration because they literally “feel blind”. ---
**Author:** ![Spacetramp\_Drago](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spacetramp_drago/32/480922_2.png) [@Spacetramp\_Drago](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spacetramp_Drago)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2025, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/52 "2025-09-17T10:18:39Z")
I’ve never known any other game where the devs allow so much to be controlled by outside apps. Maybe it outlines both the devs and players insecurities and paranoia? I’d love them all to be blocked, apart from dotlan maybe as it’s still by far the better map for finding ice and such. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2025, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/we-should-attract-the-old-players-back-to-space-battles/493249/53 "2025-12-16T10:19:20Z")
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