# What Ahbazon Campers Don't Want You To Know: This One Simple Trick Would Immediately Fix Highsec Topography **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Created:** [April 27, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484 "2025-04-27T13:36:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Trusty\_Patches](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trusty_patches/32/458720_2.png) [@Trusty\_Patches](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trusty_Patches)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/41 "2025-04-28T14:43:34Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Related to the topic, I believe that having some _distance_ between the hubs is _essential_ and _good_ Sure, but having 50 jumps between the main trade hub and 50% of highsec systems is just stupid. And that is barely an exaggeration; I don’t have time to do the data processing to count only high-sec systems right now, but out of the four empire regions the Amarr regions have 609 systems, while Minmatar, Gallente and Caldari have 395, 340 and 310 respectively. This means that highsec is currently essentially pyramid-shaped. Caldari space is at the top of the pyramid with the fewest systems yet the biggest tradehub, and the two regions with the most systems are the farthest away from there. The geography is just stupid and not good for the game. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/42 "2025-04-28T14:54:14Z")
Even though the majority of players live in high-sec, there’s still too much of it. The main source of income in high-sec is missions and Abyssals, with some key mining (ice). The regular asteroid belts are virtually untouched. Trading is a given. You could make high-sec smaller by converting systems to low-sec, but low-sec would just f\*\*k it up as they always do (with help from null-sec) and the end result would just be more high-sec players clustered in fewer high-sec systems. Jita has everything - it’s as simple as that. Any high-end Officer or Abyssal modules are also pretty much exclusively there (and that isn’t going to change). Not to mention the majority of contracts. Players would even pay a higher rate (price/tax) for this convenience - and probably do. And there’s the huge private null-sec PLEX hub in Perimeter. And no one’s really mentioned the 1000-lb gorilla in the room: Uedama. People live/earn/trade in Caldari space so they don’t have to run the gauntlet. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/43 "2025-04-28T15:10:05Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Related to the topic, I believe that having some _distance_ between the hubs is _essential_ and _good_, to give local industrialists a noticable benefit over those who just trade and haul. That’s why industry skyrocketed in and around Amarr after Niarja was cut, because it is so far away from Jita. Or Devoid, Khanid, Kador and so on. Now it all makes sense. 🤔 You may think that these are windmills, but to be quite honest, your disingenuity only deserves stronger windmills. > [@Syzygium](#): > > Going the other way like the OP suggests, by making it a lot easier to trade between the hubs, isn’t going to fix any problem. That had all the problems fixed in the past. People kept all the hubs stocked much more reliably, not just be big 4 but also minor hubs like Orvolle/Stacmon, Sasta, Esescama, Agil. Why? Because it was feasible and practical to move goods without too much hassle. It was also possible to produce for other markets in more remote areas without too much hassle. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/44 "2025-04-28T15:38:12Z")
I get the feeling that everyone wants Jita to be just around the corner for convenience sake. Convenience is not the best for the game. In fact a game like EVE thrives at carefully balanced _inconvenience_. Distances matter, the inconvenience of items not teleporting matters. Taxes matter. All of those inconveniences combined create opportunities for a living world with player-ran economy. Stop asking for Jita to be next door please. ---
**Author:** ![Trusty\_Patches](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trusty_patches/32/458720_2.png) [@Trusty\_Patches](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trusty_Patches)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 3:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/45 "2025-04-28T15:47:22Z")
26 jumps is not “next door”. 26 jumps is still like an hour of travel in a freighter. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/46 "2025-04-28T15:49:59Z")
Freighters are supposed to be slow, which is a great opportunity to make ISK for haulers and traders if the distances are long, because that means other players are less willing to make that trip themselves and are more willing to pay others to move it or to buy locally outside of Jita. The easier you make it to trade in Jita from everywhere in the game, the more you solidify Jita as main and only trade hub. I’d like to see more trade hubs than just Jita, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Trusty\_Patches](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trusty_patches/32/458720_2.png) [@Trusty\_Patches](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trusty_Patches)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/47 "2025-04-28T15:51:53Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > The easier you make it to trade in Jita from everywhere in the game, the more you solidify Jita as main and only trade hub. > > I’d like to see more trade hubs than just Jita, thanks. That approach of making Jita distant has been tried and it has demonstratably not worked. Jita is bigger than ever while all the other trade hubs are smaller than ever. Your argument is completely contradictory with observable reality. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 3:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/48 "2025-04-28T15:53:41Z")
What do you mean, did not work? All I have seen is an increase in making it _easier_ to trade in Jita. Pochven filaments made travel to Jita immensely easier from anywhere in the game. It was only recently that CCP finally added some risk to the Pochven express, but it’s still a lot easier to go to Jita than it was years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Trusty\_Patches](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trusty_patches/32/458720_2.png) [@Trusty\_Patches](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trusty_Patches)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 4:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/49 "2025-04-28T16:05:50Z")
Pochven only makes travel easy for pilots, not goods, and in this regard it does not really distinguish between regions. It’s just as easy to get to Jita through Pochven as it is to go to Amarr or Minmatar space. People do not move bulk goods through Pochven. Nobody takes freighters through and even DSTs are rare. Back when Amarr was at its peak, the HS route from Jita to Amarr was 11 jumps through Niarja. That route being removed has made Amarr smaller, not bigger. Therefore it is demonstratably true that proximity to Jita made the other trade hubs healthier, and when that proximity was cut they withered. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/50 "2025-04-28T16:19:43Z")
> [@Trusty\_Patches](#): > > Therefore it is demonstratably true that proximity to Jita made the other trade hubs healthier I doubt that. - Which of the secondary trade hubs of Rens, Hek, Dodixie and Amarr is healthiest? **Amarr** - Which secondary trade hub is furthest away from Jita to have their own trade and industry ecosystem, albeit smaller than Jita’s? **Amarr** We need _distance_ to have healthy secondary trade hubs. If they’re too close to Jita transportation may be easier to and from Jita, but easy transportation doesn’t make a healthy secondary trade hub, it just means people would just as well shop as Jita instead. Out of all secondary trade hubs only Amarr has me shopping, because it’s a pain to move to Jita. If Jita were any closer that I could comfortably trade at Jita instead I’d simply ignore Amarr too. Distance is meant to matter. This is a space game. ---
**Author:** ![Trusty\_Patches](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trusty_patches/32/458720_2.png) [@Trusty\_Patches](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trusty_Patches)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/51 "2025-04-28T16:44:55Z")
We can see that it is true from the Monthly Economic Report. [June 2017](https://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Jun_2017/6_trade.value.by.region.png) is the oldest I could find, while [March 2025](https://images.ctfassets.net/7lhcm73ukv5p/2JI4k28JaHbZOx8X9cjClG/f8e40f4d863a5f4683804631feebdd42/6_trade_value_by_region.png) is the latest. We can see that: - Jita (The Forge) has grown from 599,650 B to 717,297 B — an increase of about 20% - Amarr (Domain) has shrunk from 70,766 B to 62,427 B — a decrease of about 12% - Dodixie (Sinq Laison) has shrunk from 23,989 B to 18,535 B — a decrease of about 23% - Rens (Heimatar) has shrunk from 11,651 B to 8,064 B — a decrease of about 31% - Hek (Metropolis) has grown from 10,952 B to 11,663 B — an increase of about 6% Every market hub except for Hek has shrunk since the geography changes caused by Pochven, and Hek has probably only grown because the nearby Rens has all but died and people are moving from there to Hek. Trade hubs are not self sufficient, they rely on, you know, trade to prosper. Making inter-hub trade difficult does not make for multiple prosperous trade hubs, it just leads to centralization. The evidence backs this up. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/52 "2025-04-28T16:45:16Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I’d like to see more trade hubs than just Jita, thanks. You want to do everything in your power to not see more tradehubs. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Which of the secondary trade hubs of Rens, Hek, Dodixie and Amarr is healthiest? **Amarr** Amarr was much healthier, more competitive and far less cornered and poorly stocked when Jita was only 9 jumps away. There were also regular extremely high value couriers going between Jita and Amarr to exploit quick sale opportunities. Distance paired with inconvenience does not create a good trade gameplay experience. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/53 "2025-04-28T16:51:19Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Distance is meant to matter. This is a space game. This. Pochven Highway is the first thing they should completely remove. Throw any ship using a Filament from Pochven into a _random_ HS or LS system. Could be Perimeter, could be Solitude Lowsec, your risk. Else scan yourself a WH connection. Jita is _way_ too accessible right now. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/54 "2025-04-28T19:21:47Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Amarr was much healthier, more competitive and far less cornered and poorly stocked when Jita was only 9 jumps away. There were also regular extremely high value couriers going between Jita and Amarr to exploit quick sale opportunities. Nailed it. And the trade numbers bear this out (up to a 31% drop in trade volume in non-Jita markets) while Jita has only increased. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/55 "2025-04-28T19:26:32Z")
If you want to save the trade hubs, add hyper gates linking each of the main trade hubs together. Have them accelerate warp speed by 10x and charge a fixed toll based on ship mass x total distance. Eligible for transports and freighters only (no mining ships or combat vessels). ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/56 "2025-04-28T19:34:08Z")
> [@Arthur\_Aihaken](#): > > no mining ships or combat vessels That’s what docking bays and Bowheads are for… ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/57 "2025-04-28T21:09:24Z")
Great, glad we’re in agreement (at least on that aspect). ---
**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/58 "2025-04-29T00:29:15Z")
> [@Trusty\_Patches](#): > > t analyzed the entire map with a magnifying glass to find the most optimal solution, but here’s one simple trick that will cut the Jita–Amarr route from 46 jumps to 25. There are multiple chokepoints on the Jita-Amarr route now. Not just Uedama and Sivala, but also Balle, Josekorn, Gheth, Sassoutikh, Ohide, Odin, Essescama and there are more. This change would decrement number of chokepoints which would probably meant much less traffic in minmatar-Jita route and gankers fighting over Vecamia as a new Niarja. It could kill Ahbazon traffic as well… ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 1:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/59 "2025-04-29T01:02:37Z")
CCCP is never going to do this anyway. 2 choke points are better than one. Gives players a choice where they want to die. Last thrill I had in the game was when 2 high end cats tried to catch my dst in the pipe. For the isk I was making, I did not mind the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Trusty\_Patches](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trusty_patches/32/458720_2.png) [@Trusty\_Patches](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trusty_Patches)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 1:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484/60 "2025-04-29T01:07:07Z")
> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#): > > There are multiple chokepoints on the Jita-Amarr route now. Not just Uedama and Sivala, but also Balle, Josekorn, Gheth, Sassoutikh, Ohide, Odin, Essescama and there are more. > > This change would decrement number of chokepoints which would probably meant much less traffic in minmatar-Jita route and gankers fighting over Vecamia as a new Niarja. > > It could kill Ahbazon traffic as well… Balle isn’t on the Jita–Amarr route, and the rest of what you listed is just a string of consecutive 0.6 systems so calling it multiple chokepoints isn’t really true. This change would add one more 0.5 chokepoint on the Jita–Amarr route. Ahbazon would still be half the distance of this route, but yes, it stands to reason that _any_ reduction of the currently incredibly long route would make Ahbazon less enticing as a shortcut. This is not a bad thing. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-ahbazon-campers-dont-want-you-to-know-this-one-simple-trick-would-immediately-fix-highsec-topography/484484.md?page=4)