# What do you think would bring eve into a new golden age **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 10, 2023, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274 "2023-01-10T14:11:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/523 "2023-02-07T10:24:23Z")
Golden Age was when they were presenting demos for ambulation. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/524 "2023-02-07T10:49:54Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > In the old days, we could consistently take down these groups, liberating their members to pursue membership in better organizations. Stop acting like you did a public service. You farmed easy kills and now you’re mad that you can’t farm as many easy kills, that’s all it is. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/525 "2023-02-07T11:38:49Z")
> [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > I do have a bit more insight than most into this - I joined with around 20 people from a forum of people who liked the look of EVE. I was the only one that lasted longer than 3 months. I have _considerable_ insight, because I have an alt who has the job within a corporation of handing out free implants to noobs. I check to see who is noob by looking at the corporation members list…arranged by joining date. This is an activity I do every two weeks or so…and I specifically look for people under a month old. Most of the noobs are still active ( which one can see by how recently they logged in and by the fact that they ‘accept’ the implants ). There are two factors here… 1. The number of implants that never get accepted. I allow a week for acceptance. That is about 15%. 2. The number of noobs who have not logged in for over 7 days. That is again about 15%. So the surprising thing is that most corp noobs are _not_ leaving within the first few weeks…and I suspect that is _because_ they have joined a corp. CCP have themselves stated that joining a corp is one of the prime ‘staying’ factors. Of course, one also cannot rule out that being given free implants ( something other corps do as well ) is itself a staying factor and makes noobs feel cared for. In which case we need more of that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 11:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/526 "2023-02-07T11:41:27Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I couldn’t put this monstrosity out of its misery The question is - DID YOU GANK HIM? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/527 "2023-02-07T11:55:11Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > You farmed easy kills Is there _anyone_ in Eve who says ’ I’m going down to Abhazon to single handedly take on 27 Tornadoes at the gate camp in my Condor’ ? _Of course_ people go for the easier kills. Why wouldn’t they ? But Eve is all about how an ‘easy’ kill may not ultimately turn out that way…as nothing is guaranteed easy in advance. Eve has to contain ‘easy kills’ otherwise there’s too much of a gap for noobs to get past. So the real question is to what extent is it noobs taking advantage of those kills, or older players because they are not as ‘easy’ as you make out. I mean, if there are fewer ‘easy kills’…how is that good for noobs ? ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/528 "2023-02-07T12:20:46Z")
We’re not talking about “easier” kills, we’re talking about farming the easiest possible kills. And sure, if you care about your killboard numbers that’s what you’ll do, and that’s fine, but trying to pass it off as if it’s some service to the community is cringeworthy. Ahbazon (and the many other wider spread roams) with Spectre is great content for new players by the way, low barrier for entry, easy to understand and it gives experience in various fleet scenarios and an opportunity to fly a variety of ships. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Eve has to contain ‘easy kills’ otherwise there’s too much of a gap for noobs to get past. So the real question is to what extent is it noobs taking advantage of those kills, or older players because they are not as ‘easy’ as you make out. We’re talking about a wardec system you weren’t here to witness so there’s going to be a knowledge gap here, but basically, groups of veterans used to declare war on large numbers of small corps filled with new players looking to get easy kills from people who had no chance to fight back. It wasn’t easy content for new players themselves to get into except as a lossmail. To some extent, the same happens now but back then structures were not required for a war and what CCP saw was that players tended to leave corps due to these wars and many didn’t rejoin other corps, and this was happening on a massive scale. To quote Hellmar, “we had a situation where a few bullies were having fun at the expense of tens of thousands, exploiting a game design that had been stagnant for too long”. ---
**Author:** ![Misanthra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/misanthra/32/391383_2.png) [@Misanthra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Misanthra)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/529 "2023-02-07T12:34:27Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > It wasn’t easy content for new players themselves to get into except as a lossmail. the really odd bit was they looked at cracking the dec shield (iirc that was what they called it, been a bit) set ups, before fixing the issue. I never saw issues with dec shield. shoddy loophole to dec an empire corp. countered with dec shield working another loophole. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/530 "2023-02-07T13:14:46Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > The question is - DID YOU GANK HIM? No. He almost never undocked when he was online. He logged in, collected the ore buy-backs from members, chewed out those who weren’t meeting the quotas, handed out performance reviews, and that’s pretty much it. Even if he were ganked, I don’t think it would’ve presented an existential threat to the existence of his organization in the same way that a targeted campaign would. It’s not like he was evil or anything (although I’ve encountered plenty of carebear CEOs that _were_). He genuinely thought he was a “space admiral” preparing his “elite fighting forces” to push back against the scourge of the Sansha’s Butchers and Enslavers “along the periphery” of the Planet II - Asteroid Belt V “mining sector.” The problem is that his actions still made like twenty new players quit when his little venture collapsed in on itself due to lack of engagement and activity. So sure, it’s kind of sad to think about it this way, but it’s important to make people like that drop the game ASAP before they can do so much damage, which isn’t often possible these days. Back when wars were an option, such groups could be disbanded very quickly, and around a third to a half of their members would join better outfits and continue playing. Today, it’s a total loss. > [@Misanthra](#): > > I never saw issues with dec shield. shoddy loophole to dec an empire corp. countered with dec shield working another loophole. There was nothing “loophole” about declaring wars on empire corporations, because that was an actual programmed game mechanic. The ability to declare wars wasn’t some kind of “developer oversight,” but _intended gameplay._ “Dec Shield” on the other hand was an actual exploit/oversight because it allowed players to instantly _completely nullify_ wars, wasting the attacker war fee payments without compensation, which _wasn’t_ intended gameplay. It was a simple oversight in war transfer mechanics, which allowed alliances to inherit corporate wars, but not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Misanthra](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/misanthra/32/391383_2.png) [@Misanthra](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Misanthra)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/531 "2023-02-07T13:50:27Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The ability to declare wars wasn’t some kind of “developer oversight,” but _intended gameplay._ it was getting abused the point one could pick the number 3 to start a war. That was not intended. 3rd station, 3rd Corp in station, war dec them. no rhyme nor reason. just because number 3 came to mind. then some mixed in more fun. they just hired mercs. could not be bothered to actually fight. so dec shield cleared out this crap. No real empathy for merc hirers there. Proxy war to start off with, the dec’d use a proxy too. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/532 "2023-02-07T13:55:34Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > We’re not talking about “easier” kills, we’re talking about farming the easiest possible kills. And sure, if you care about your killboard numbers that’s what you’ll do, and that’s fine, but trying to pass it off as if it’s some service to the community is cringeworthy. Fact is, one’s killboard will _never_ be ‘good enough’ for some people. I recall a year ago I had no killboard at all and had comments ( which were true ) that I never travelled more that a few systems from Vittenyn. Then I killed a few pods…and got the expected ’ all you’ve done is kill a few pods’ statements. And so on, right through me taking on baiters, expanding to cover all of Eve, venturing into lowsec and nullsec, bashing stations, engaging in ganking, spying on corps ( and having a killboard for that ) and so on. No matter what one actually does…the one thing that can be _guaranteed_ is there’ll always be someone to belittle it. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/533 "2023-02-07T14:05:19Z")
> [@Misanthra](#): > > it was getting abused the point one could pick the number 3 to start a war. That was not intended. > > 3rd station, 3 Corp in station, war dec them. no rhyme nor reason. just because number 3 came to mind. > > then some mixed in more fun. they just hired mercs. could not be bothered to actually fight. so dec shield cleared out this crap. No real empathy for merc hirers there. Proxy war to start off with, the dec’d use a proxy too. No matter how you feel about the motivations for starting wars, the ability to do so for _any_ reason was _always_ intended. The mechanic was (and still is) very clear: pay the applicable fee, and you’re able to declare war on an eligible corporation or alliance of your choosing. The recipients of the wars had various counter-play options: they could either choose to fight (or ignore) the attackers, or temporarily drop out of or disband their corporations/alliances. “Dec Shield,” on the other hand, was a mechanical oversight. While it might’ve had an effect that you personally find favorable, it’s undeniable that this effect was achieved through an unintended, exploitative method, which CCP understood and agreed with, leading to it being patched out of the game. “Dec Shield” had absolutely no counter-play options; it was simply a series of button presses that canceled incoming wars, wasted the attackers’ war fees, and also increased the costs of the attackers’ subsequent wars (wars had an escalating fee system back then). You know, I might not like, say, high-sec miners, but if there was a button combination that allowed me to make any miner’s barge explode without any risks, costs, or penalties to myself, I’d likewise agree that it’s fundamentally unfair, and would argue for patching it out. As far as game balance is concerned, try to see things from a more objective viewpoint, instead of letting your emotions take the wheel. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/534 "2023-02-07T14:10:52Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > We’re talking about a wardec system you weren’t here to witness so there’s going to be a knowledge gap here, but basically, groups of veterans used to declare war on large numbers of small corps filled with new players looking to get easy kills from people who had no chance to fight back. It wasn’t easy content for new players themselves to get into except as a lossmail. As I’ve said time and again…people who cannot defend their stations should not be putting them up in the first place. They should no more leave a Raitaru sitting there undefended than they would leave a battleship sitting there undefended. What’s not to understand ? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/535 "2023-02-07T14:21:25Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > As I’ve said time and again…people who cannot defend their stations should not be putting them up in the first place. They should no more leave a Raitaru sitting there undefended than they would leave a battleship sitting there undefended. This would be sound logic if asymmetric warfare were possible for station defense, but otherwise this means that the only entities that can own stations are those that can fight off attackers by fielding massive fleets of their own. In an effort to create big, media-marketable battles, CCP created a rubbish system that forces everyone to ball up into ever-bigger conglomerates in order to stay alive. N+1 makes for predictably boring, unrewarding gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/536 "2023-02-07T14:35:40Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > This would be sound logic if asymmetric warfare were possible for station defense, but otherwise this means that the only entities that can own stations are those that can fight off attackers by fielding massive fleets of their own. But it works both ways. The attackers can become the attacked. Surely the fairness symmetry of Eve is that anyone can choose to be hunter or hunted, and sometimes that choice is made for them. It’s not like Eve hands out God given roles people then keep ad infinitum. Well…unless they are nullsec bloc leaders 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 2:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/537 "2023-02-07T14:39:02Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > What’s not to understand ? Well if a 2 week old noob can have a battleship, why can’t they have a Raitaru? The end result will be the same. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/538 "2023-02-07T15:08:38Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Fact is, one’s killboard will _never_ be ‘good enough’ for some people. To most people, killboards don’t matter at all one way or the other. Easy kills is not about killboards, it’s about whether or not it’s creating engaging gameplay all around. Creaming thousands of inexperienced players like wardec groups used to do did not create engaging gameplay for most of the players affected. Taking more even fights is more exciting all round. It’s why when I am in Abhazon it’s more likely I’m there as part of a rageping when there’s a large fleet against us rather than a gatecamp where the guys are popping people coming through gates. I think with your specific situation it’s not about your killboard, it’s that you talk as if you are an authority on PvP and you frequently claim superiority as a player (even superiority as a mouse user one time) while you don’t seem to engage in anything that takes any significant skill. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > As I’ve said time and again…people who cannot defend their stations should not be putting them up in the first place. Again though, we’re talking about the old system where you did not need a citadel to be wardecced. And while you bring it up, once again, I agree, you should not expect your citadel to be safe. But what CCP have done is add an artificial PvE incentive for risk averse wardec groups to run around targeting small player corps with structures. It’s the opposite of risk/reward balance because you get the same reward for far lower risk if you attack a citadel of a 5 member corp than if you attack a similar citadel of a 200 member corp. The reward you get as attackers should be based on the citadel activity, not on an arbitrary PvE drop CCP added to stop null blobs spamming hundreds of structures. You weren’t here for structures before cores but it was a better system for allowing corps to organically grow. Adding cores reverted it back to a system where only large alliances or corps with direct connections to them can realistically own structures. Sometimes I think you need to step back from this idea that everyone should be punished for trying anything risky and understand that the purpose of the game is to entertain players. What is enjoyable for people on both sides should be the main focus. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > But it works both ways. The attackers can become the attacked. They can, but most of the time the attackers put very little on the line, are backed by much larger groups and the people who would attack them are too small to succeed. The amount of effort needed to fight back far outweighs any potential reward and still requires N+1. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/539 "2023-02-07T15:19:32Z")
> [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > it’s about whether or not it’s creating engaging gameplay all around. Who gets to decide what is ‘engaging’ ? When did CCP promote you to that role ? _Some_ people find sitting there for 10 hours watching a mining laser to be engaging. > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > you don’t seem to engage in anything that takes any significant skill. Who made you the adjudicator of skills whilst at the same time decrying others supposedly claiming superiority ? > [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](#): > > it’s that you talk as if you are an authority on PvP Ah…‘as if’…damn I’m going to have to find that Cathy Newman pic again. Maybe I should just keep it in my Pics folder permanently. ---
**Author:** ![Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elizabet_forgrave/32/457166_2.png) [@Elizabet\_Forgrave](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elizabet_Forgrave)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 4:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/540 "2023-02-07T16:04:02Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Who gets to decide what is ‘engaging’ ? When did CCP promote you to that role ? _Some_ people find sitting there for 10 hours watching a mining laser to be engaging. CCP. Like you I have my opinions about what is engaging, others have theirs, but it’s CCP that decides what content is engaging enough to reach the player numbers they aim for. You get so angry when someone disagrees with your opinions. Thanks for addressing precisely none of my actual points though, it further indicates that you have no interest in a good-faith discussion on the topic. ---
**Author:** ![cyno\_babette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cyno_babette/32/428240_2.png) [@cyno\_babette](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/cyno_babette)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/541 "2023-02-07T22:32:43Z")
Humor, why remove it? every game that matures and becomes ‘polished’ removes humor due to constant crying for nerfs. When was the last time you watched a funny eve video? Funny Eve videos are part of Eve’s golden age, they removed all of the mechanics that made this game funny. In case people ever forget [EVE-ONLINE.. VERY FUNNY!!!! guy gets pissed - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns9oAGnK9CU&ab_channel=MattPriest) If you can’t go to the pub and laugh when you get can flipped, ganked, scammed or tricked then why play any mmorpg? YOU killed this game haha ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274/542 "2023-02-07T23:41:04Z")
> [@cyno\_babette](#): > > laugh when you get can flipped Yes it was very funny, as I knew something they didn’t, they were about to die. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274.md?page=26) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-do-you-think-would-bring-eve-into-a-new-golden-age/391274.md?page=28)