# What Eve is like for a new player **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 2, 2019, 7:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337 "2019-09-02T07:37:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 1:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/184 "2019-09-07T01:53:36Z")
He asked if new players coming in and blowing stuff up was ever a dynamic. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > We stopped new players coming in, blowing stuff up, stealing from vets and having fun doing so . . . ? Who, what, when, where, why and HOW did “we” stop that? And was that ever actually the dynamic or are you just being sentimental? You said your ability to do so was engaging for you. But it ended. > [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > The ability to hurt/annoy/wd the large alliances is what kept me in the game even after the ability to do so cheaply ended. So it _was_ a dynamic? Have i taken that out of context? ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/185 "2019-09-07T02:05:58Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > You seem to think you know who they are. But i don’t know who you think my leaders are. So can you tell me? No, I can’t tell you who I think your leaders are. I don’t think about such things. I would have to actually care to devote brainpower to such a pursuit. Do you have any other such questions that I can’t answer? Would you like me to tell you who your mommy is or who your 3rd grade teacher was or what color your pet goldfish turned when it died because you fed it too much? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I never said anything about abuse > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > We’ve been taking away the ways noobs can make money off of vets or stop vets making money (_ **AND PREVENTING THEM HAVING FUN IN THE PROCESS** _). Emphasis mine. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Wardecs were a way for new players to cut their teeth in pvp. They _ **COULD** _ learn to hunt other players by wardeccing other noobs or miners. Cool story, bro. So, war decs were actually helping new players and that’s why you’re sad? Because new players can’t have fun anymore, and because you feel their pain? BTW, I don’t “remember” which war dec changes happened or were made when. You may have noticed that I am in a corp that cannot be war dec’ed and, also, I don’t care if I am war dec’ed. I don’t concern myself with it, at all. The only change I remember is that the defender was enabled to have allies that could assist them. 🙂 > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > Crimewatch in 2013 made gankers potential global targets for a month. No, it made them a potential target for 15 minutes at a time, which . . . who cares? Ganking makes many of them targets 24/7. How did that hurt the newbies? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > ganking is something you do on a dedicated character now, _ **NOT** _ something people do for _ **FUN** _ lolwat? Are you saying gankers don’t gank for fun? What are you saying, Daichi Yamato? Are you saying gankers have some ulterior motive for suppressing newbie mining in high sec? What could that even mean? But . . . James 315 . . . The Code . . . > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > If you asked brave newbies or eve uni if they wanted to be wardec immune what do you think they would say? I can’t ask them because they don’t really exist anymore. I could ask Pandemic Horde (for which I’ve heard some bad things). We all know Goons take loads of abuse and they are a bunch of noobz. Hey, did YOU bother to ask any of these groups? Maybe you could tell us what they said and who said it (so we can confirm that that’s what they actually said). > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > It’s in the last csm minutes. I’ll check into that and get back to you. #whereisWaldo > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > awox nerf. Did that make you angry? Sometimes people who have misaligned expectations can become “enraged”, whereby their normal mental constraints are overpowered or shut off and they are enabled to commit abusive acts. Does that sound like a phenomenon you have experienced? You seem fixated on certain changes CCP made without your approval. There was no AWOX nerf. BTW. You can’t really nerf information warfare, espionage with some sort of blanket change to mechanics. People can always be lied to, especially players who are new to the game. In fact, you are lying about many of the changes that CCP made to the game, or rather “spinning” the changes to make them look like they support your agenda. You are claiming to want newbros to have fun while you mislead them. I’ll bet any newbie reading this would actually believe you. They have no bearing. They don’t even know which way is up. Is lying an act of abuse? > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I know you don’t think of the noobs. Just use them to push an agenda. Quote where I did that. In truth, I love the newbie scum. They’re so gullible and dilligent. Cute, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/186 "2019-09-07T02:08:07Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > You have to realize. A new player asked for advice in corp channel and got the idotic “here’s a 200 mil ship that you can’t pay for, have no idea on how to use and really isn’t that great but it’s COOL!” nonsense from some clown whom Morgan tends to agree with. > > When that newbie said “yeah but that’s not really useful to a newbie now is it” and I went “use that newbie’s perspective: his wallet, his skill points and his experience level. Not your own” and that is was shitty advice. Morgans reply was that it’s up to newbies to figure out which advice that is given to them is useful or shitty. > > He doesn’t give one fck about newbies, he’s clueless at the game (easily fact checked) and he uses the logic of a 12 year old. I am Mayhaw Morgan and I support, endorse, and approve of this message. #truestory #seemslegit ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/187 "2019-09-07T02:20:56Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > No, I can’t tell you who I think your leaders are. I don’t think about such things. What the hell was this about then? > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > ^ THIS is why your leaders tell you to STFU in local. What they reall mean is just STFU. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > Emphasis mine. Yes the wardec nerfs prevented up and coming pvp’rs from having fun. (i wrote it badly. My fault). > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > The only change I remember is that the defender was enabled to have allies that could assist them. 🙂 That was 2012 as well as changing the cost from a couple mil to 50mil+. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > No, it made them a potential target for 15 minutes at a time, which . . . who cares? Ganking makes many of them targets 24/7. How did that hurt the newbies? Suspect made them a target for 15 minutes. The kill rights meant anyone could turn them suspect at any time for a month. It hurts new players because ganking is something noobs could do and be good at it as well. Destroyers are quick to train into. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > lolwat? Are you saying gankers don’t gank for fun? What are you saying, Daichi Yamato? Are you saying gankers have some ulterior motive for suppressing newbie mining in high sec? What could that even mean? But . . . James 315 . . . The Code . . . Deliberately snipping my quote. Nice. When you can’t argue, try to change the facts. Right? > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > I can’t ask them because they don’t really exist anymore. What rock are you under? [https://evewho.com/alliance/937872513](https://evewho.com/alliance/937872513) > **[Ivy League | Alliance](https://zkillboard.com/alliance/937872513/)** > > Ivy League: 368,201 ships destroyed and 410,232 ships lost. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > There was no AWOX nerf. BTW. You can’t really nerf information warfare, espionage with some sort of blanket change to mechanics. AWOX. Not AWACS. > **[CCP Decides to Ban All Awoxing/Safaris in Highsec](http://www.minerbumping.com/2014/10/ccp-decides-to-ban-all-awoxingsafaris.html?m=1)** > > If you're like most people, you probably assume CSM meeting minutes are boring and not worth reading. Maybe so. However, I've always found... Corp friendly fire. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > Quote where I did that. This thread. Arguing that vets used pvp to a detrimental effect of the new player retention. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/188 "2019-09-07T02:22:35Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > Did that make you angry? I was pretty miffed. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 2:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/189 "2019-09-07T02:24:55Z")
What is really interesting about that is it busts the myth that PvP or suicide ganks drive new players away. ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/190 "2019-09-07T02:35:23Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > It sounds like you installed EvE with a totally different idea to what the game was compared to what you experienced. What is it you are looking for? Thats probably most people who have tried the game. Hell, I remember thinking something like that when I started. I ask my friend who brought me into the game “do i need a joystick”, because space game = jet fighters in space game and thus joystick. He said “no, in EVE you are basically the captain/brains of a ‘capital’ ship, not a fighter jock. The smallest thing you pilot is a FRIGATE and you control it by clicking in space or right clicking on things you want to warp to”. EVE pvp and ship movement are ‘strategic’ in nature, having damn little to do with manual skill (for all except the most elite PVPrs). It was almost a deal breaker for me but I kept playing and now I HATE “jetfighters in space” games which is why Elite didn’t hold my attention and Star Citizen won’t either. So many eve players think that if you just change _this_, or _that_, or make _this_ more balanced, other open up _that_ to new players etc, that new players will stay and play. EVE players tend to not understand that most space gamers don’t want to be James Kirk or Bill Adama, in fact most are exactly like I was in 2007; fighter jocks (Skywalkers and Apollos) looking for something to use a joystick on. That want something to show off their twitch skills with. Now, you make an EVE two with EVE style ships AND EVe Valkyrie ‘space-jets’, well, that might be something entirely different… ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/191 "2019-09-07T04:48:28Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > What is really interesting about that is it busts the myth that PvP or suicide ganks drive new players away. Umm, don’t know where you got that idea from. Try watching the 2019 World Invasion Tour presentation - Beyond The Friendship Machine - and pay close attention to the part about the ‘Magic Moment’ for new player retention. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 6:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/192 "2019-09-07T06:26:32Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > What is really interesting about that is it busts the myth that PvP or suicide ganks drive new players away. > > Umm, don’t know where you got that idea from. > > Try watching the 2019 World Invasion Tour presentation - Beyond The Friendship Machine - and pay close attention to the part about the ‘Magic Moment’ for new player retention. Well it sort of does. Everything CCP has said, starting from the 2015 presentation of Rise to the more recent comments of CCP Ghost and Hilmar on player retention argues that PvP or suicide ganking _in and of itself_ does not drive new players away. That first encounter with PvP, like that first encounter with any of the more challenging bits of the game where the player can actually lose, is impactful, and framing that ‘magic moment’ is thought to be a significant determinant in whether that player stays. Therefore, losing a ship in a war or to gankers isn’t the problem - having that happen with no context, explanation, or without friends or a social group to support the new player is the issue. And I think Daichi has done an excellent job above explaining why all these well-intended nerfs to avenues to content that were done in the name of new players have failed to boost retention. It seems now that wardecs, ganking, AWOXing, can flipping, ninja-salvaging or suspect baiting were the cause of so many ‘magic moments’ where players experienced the unexpected, either directly or saw it happen in the universe around them, and then bonded with their social group or had their eyes opened to the real possibilities of the sandbox around them. Sure, it also drove some players away that didn’t have the support or ability to understand what just happened, but at least by exposing newer players to highsec conflict, there was the chance of sparking that ‘magic moment’ and hooking that player. Instead, CCP has just nerfed the hell out of the mechanisms of generating highsec content to the point they aren’t possible at all, or just not viable for new players. I don’t think this was always completely intentional, rather just often the easiest way to fix a balance issue, but regardless, it has sterilized highsec and made it boring and unengaging. It now seems that the only thing worse for retention than throwing a new player into a ‘magic moment’ without sufficient support is to remove the game mechanisms that use to generate those ‘magic moments’ from the game in the first place. This isn’t an easy problem to solve. But I think after almost a decade of making highsec, and the game in general, safer and safer, it’s time to put down the tape and bubble-wrap and come up with some new strategies to get players engaged with game, ones that involve some conflict and content, and in a way the new player can have a ‘magic moment’ in a supportive context. Otherwise, retention rates will remain abysmal if you just release new players into the empty husk of a game that is modern highsec, where almost nothing of note happens, and the few places where there are interesting, player-driven things going on are only the province of veteran players where the new players cannot compete or participate, other than perhaps as mostly helpless targets. There needs to be accessible, player-driven activities where new players can participate and feel like they can contribute and even compete with veterans to generate ‘magic moments’. Making highsec safer and safer just helps the veterans and widens the gap between new and established players, and is thus counterproductive to this goal. More importantly, CCP has tried this repeatedly and It hasn’t worked. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 7:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/193 "2019-09-07T07:28:02Z")
Don’t know why everyone keeps thinking I said suicide ganking is the cause. CCP Ghost and CCP Hellmar didn’t place any distinction on whether it was PvP, PvE or Suicide Ganking and neither did I, they simply stated that the ‘Magic Moment’ of when a new player decides to stay or quit is when they lose their first ship. They also stated that without a social support group most of those new players will just quit. The graph’s they posted show that 90% of brand new players to the game actually quit within their first week. Considering the fact that these are actual brand new players who have never played the game, it’s a safe bet they haven’t formed or joined any social support group during that time frame either. And since CCP directly linked the ‘Magic Moment’ with the New Player retention, the obvious conclusion is that most of those new players quit due to losing their first ship within the first week of playing this game. So I don’t know what it is you’re actually trying to say here. If your assessment of that presentation is that the reason those new players quit is because High Sec has been made too safe, then you clearly missed the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 8:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/194 "2019-09-07T08:40:11Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > CCP Ghost and CCP Hellmar didn’t place any distinction on whether it was PvP, PvE or Suicide Ganking and neither did I, they simply stated that the ‘Magic Moment’ of when a new player decides to stay or quit is when they lose their first ship. We also know from previous statistics that 85,5% of all newbros don’t experience a “magic moment” because they don’t lose a ship at all, and they are even more likely to quit! So what Pedro said is absolutely in point. For years highsec agression was nerfed and the posdibility to make the “magic moment” occure has gone away. Few players come that far to even make that decision because they simply quit out oft boredom long before they lose a ship. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 8:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/195 "2019-09-07T08:43:06Z")
So when should a player be permitted to lose a ship and how does CCP make that a mechanism? ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/196 "2019-09-07T08:56:06Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > We also know from previous statistics that 85,5% of all newbros don’t experience a “magic moment” because they don’t lose a ship at all, and they are even more likely to quit! ‘Previous Statistics’ doesn’t matter so your statement is irrelevant. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > For years highsec agression was nerfed and the posdibility to make the “magic moment” occure has gone away. Few players come that far to even make that decision because they simply quit out oft boredom long before they lose a ship. Please post a current Official statement from CCP to prove your statement, otherwise it’s just speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 8:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/197 "2019-09-07T08:56:10Z")
What CCP has to do is to introduce more conflict back into highsec or to make sure new players don’t stay there and fall into the trap of endless grinding missions or mining. It’s pretty simple. What they did over the years, and we always said that, was that highsec became a complete wasteland of content. Nothing interesting happens there. It’s full of vets grinding in almost perfect safety, the same people who push always for even more safety to further benefit them to the determent of new players who are spawned into the most boring place imaginable because of it. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 8:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/198 "2019-09-07T08:59:43Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > So when should a player be permitted to lose a ship and how does CCP make that a mechanism? If you’re referring to new players, [https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/203209712-Rookie-Griefing) As for what designates a new player, CCP said they will make that determination on a case by case review. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/199 "2019-09-07T09:00:46Z")
It would seem that the plan to remove risk of danger in High is nearly finished. The last step is to make it memeishly unpopular, and the mood of the forums changing looks like its a cert by next year. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/200 "2019-09-07T09:01:43Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > ‘Previous Statistics’ doesn’t matter so your statement is irrelevant. Dude, all you do is to interpret a SINGLE SENTENCE from Hilmars presentation out of context and give it an interpretation that fits your narrative. I’m sorry for you if you are incapable of understanding the bigger picture and just stamp your feet because no one falls for your little attempt to distort what was actually said. There is no point in discussing this with you, it will just end in more word games. I just cited your post to point out the mistake for everyone else to read. ---
**Author:** ![Karak\_Terrel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/karak_terrel/32/373453_2.png) [@Karak\_Terrel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Karak_Terrel)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 9:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/201 "2019-09-07T09:03:35Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > It would seem that the plan to remove risk of danger in High is nearly finished. The last step is to make it memeishly unpopular, and the mood of the forums changing looks like its a cert by next year. I mean they can either start to revert it or introduce completely new mechanics to mess with other players or continue to see their PCU drop and EVE fade into insignificance. It’s up to them, nothing we say here has any influence anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/202 "2019-09-07T09:13:28Z")
The mistake is you applying that PR stunt CCP Rise did years ago to the current issue of new player retention. The issue isn’t about suicide ganking so stop trying to make it out to be just that. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337/203 "2019-09-07T09:23:10Z")
Im pretty sure their intent is now to create a two tier system. High Sec with almost 100% safety, where buying PLEX direct to sell for investment capital is the norm, and Null Sec where the ingame buyers are. Hence the demolishing of the Middle Class but very little to prevent High Krabbing. How this will lead to anything but a stagnant market I dont know unless they have a content driver planned somehow. At any rate, if people leave because they lose a ship, simply removing that obstacle is the next step and they are pretty much nearly there. Just wish theyd drop the pretend grimdark they still talk about and just do it so I can finally quit in peace. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-eve-is-like-for-a-new-player/187337.md?page=11)