# What gamers want? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 3, 2025, 10:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430 "2025-06-03T10:45:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 11:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/41 "2025-06-05T11:00:35Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Waiting is P2W? No. Buying Skill Injectors is PtW. Not having to fly a venture for 7 months in order to get a poorly fitted mining barge that will be easily vaporized by the guy with perfect Engineering, Navigation, and gunery skills is PtW. How the hell would waiting be PtW? Are you okay? ---
**Author:** ![Davidius\_Pratticus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/davidius_pratticus/32/478437_2.png) [@Davidius\_Pratticus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Davidius_Pratticus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/42 "2025-06-05T11:22:24Z")
> [@Laubrani](#): > > And Gunjack, Valkyrie, WoD, DustII, Legion, Vanguard etc. A company that does not diversify and expand eventually goes under. These are business decisions, some are going to work out, a lot won’t. Such is the way of corporate manuevering. It’s always about the money. ---
**Author:** ![Laubrani](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/laubrani/32/430644_2.png) [@Laubrani](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Laubrani)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 11:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/43 "2025-06-05T11:30:42Z")
> [@Davidius\_Pratticus](#): > > A company that does not diversify and expand eventually goes under. None of these expanded, they just all drained a lot of money for nothing. Go troll somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Lydra\_Victor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lydra_victor/32/456813_2.png) [@Lydra\_Victor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lydra_Victor)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 11:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/44 "2025-06-05T11:54:15Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Waiting is P2W? Some are rushing to pilot a Marauderr just to be Gank by a Tech 1 Alpha ships in the end. If they understand what I mean. That’s not winning. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/45 "2025-06-05T12:27:38Z")
> [@Glenduil](#): > > How the hell would waiting be PtW? Are you okay? You said that! I was questioning it. See: > [@Glenduil](#): > > I’ve said it before and I still believe it- Eve skills are a big factor in PtW. You can’t sit down and grind out all of your skills. You can’t powerlevel your character. You can kill all of the boars you want and you won’t gain XP like you do in other games. Unlike other games where you spend time _grinding_ to progress your skills, in EVE you spend time _waiting_ to progress your skills. Both are very similar, with the difference that EVE gives you the freedom to spend your waiting time playing the game however you like while other games require you to grind a specific activity to progress a related skill. And _you_ call EVE’s version of skill progression -which is _waiting_- to be pay to win. Hence my question: Waiting is pay-to-win? I wouldn’t say so. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/46 "2025-06-05T12:29:25Z")
It’s called setting up your point. I never said that sitting and waiting was the PtW. I said that it was a big contributor to PtW because people don’t want to sit and wait. > [@Glenduil](#): > > In Eve, you need to either wait out the skill points or buy skill injectors. A whole new system brings new problems. That’s the biggest PtW system in Eve. Skill injectors > [@Glenduil](#): > > In Eve, you need to either wait out the skill points **or buy skill injectors**. A whole new system brings new problems. **That’s the biggest PtW system in Eve**. > [@Glenduil](#): > > **or buy skill injectors** ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/47 "2025-06-05T12:31:53Z")
Likewise people don’t want to grind and instead buy max level characters in other games too, legally or otherwise. I don’t see how EVE’s progression system has much to do with the game supposedly being ‘pay to win’, besides that any game with any progression will always cause some players to want to pay to skip to the end. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/48 "2025-06-05T12:35:09Z")
I don’t have enough crayons to explain it to you. In WoW, you can sit down and kill thousands of monsters and do hundreds of quests and reach max level in a month without spending ANY MONEY AT ALL. In Eve, you can… sit… and wait… to gain 100m skill points in close to a year. There is no way to speed that up without spending money unless CCP decides to give you skill injectors. If you don’t see a difference in that, well… perhaps you just don’t know much about playing computer games or MMOs. Sorry bud. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/49 "2025-06-05T12:37:02Z")
Now you’re being dishonest. In EVE you can grind for ISK to buy injectors on the market to get skills faster without paying just as well as you can do in WoW. Can you speed it up with money? Sure, just lke you can buy a character level boost in WoW, as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![Lydra\_Victor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lydra_victor/32/456813_2.png) [@Lydra\_Victor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lydra_Victor)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/50 "2025-06-05T12:38:38Z")
![Screenshot (95)](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/e/4/1e4c68ecea4e27564569bc8d37b8d9bc2a7a5fca.png) ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/51 "2025-06-05T12:40:59Z")
EVE does not have a pay wall. Either you subscribe (pay), subscribe through hard work (earn) or subscribe for free (do nothing). You can also just logoff for extended periods of time. The only thing you can’t do is pause a subscription. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/52 "2025-06-05T12:42:10Z")
So you’re saying that a new player can grind ISK for skill injectors from day one? With no fitting skills or mining skills or ship skills? Just hop into a venture with a civilian mining laser or a civilian gun and just rake in 900,000,000 ISK for skill injectors? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/53 "2025-06-05T12:43:22Z")
Yes they can! At a lower rate than an advanced character, sure, but you can earn ISK right from the start. This is not unlike other games where you get experience faster at higher levels. Also even though injectors are relatively expensive at the start they are also much more effective at the start. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/54 "2025-06-05T12:43:52Z")
Probably not from day 1. And as an Alpha, you’re certainly at a disadvantage from an ISK earning standpoint. I’m referring to “realistic” expectations here in terms of time put in to earn ISK. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/55 "2025-06-05T12:43:57Z")
I suppose he can head into null sec and start mining the rare ores there with his civilian fit venture… ---
**Author:** ![Lydra\_Victor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lydra_victor/32/456813_2.png) [@Lydra\_Victor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lydra_Victor)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/56 "2025-06-05T12:46:47Z")
F2P just what google says. You can spend money for upgrades that offer competitive edge. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/57 "2025-06-05T12:49:48Z")
Not exactly. EVE used to be subscription only - now there’s a F2P option. F2P = EVE “lite”. It’s not P2W. And the “competitive edge” you refer to can earned free. It’s not the same. ---
**Author:** ![Lydra\_Victor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lydra_victor/32/456813_2.png) [@Lydra\_Victor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lydra_Victor)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/58 "2025-06-05T12:50:51Z")
It says you can but it doesn’t mean you should. You have the choice to grind it in-game. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/59 "2025-06-05T13:04:01Z")
[![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/c/6/bc6269b8f57577fc4d186bfbc7d07f8b2070b4b8.jpeg "Skipping the grind with money") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GXLVn73yRY) ---
**Author:** ![Laubrani](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/laubrani/32/430644_2.png) [@Laubrani](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Laubrani)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2025, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430/60 "2025-06-05T17:07:17Z")
You have the choice to try grind for 20 hours, to earn something. While the P2Wers log in and blow you up with with P2Wed ships every 10 minutes. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-gamers-want/488430.md?page=4)