# What happened to Eve? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 10, 2020, 4:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797 "2020-03-10T04:06:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Thorian\_Baalnorn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thorian_baalnorn/32/187492_2.png) [@Thorian\_Baalnorn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thorian_Baalnorn)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/187 "2020-03-12T00:19:35Z")
> [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > We are discussing this from a developers point of view. And the developers are on record stating that PVP is the central aspect of this game. And yet PVE gets so much more love. > [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > No, if this were true, prices would continuously drop. They havent. They have stabilized, meaning that we are in a balance of destruction and production. [Economic Report](https://webimg.ccpgamescdn.com/7lhcm73ukv5p/6ainE0UVMrtFMvTHqmXH6/1ddb594a352402a6b23b1fa870177036/0_produced.vs.destroyed.png) So you are saying CCP Larrikin has made a mistake with the economic report…every.single.month? > [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > But if you seriously think that PVE and PVP both play very heavy roles, answer this simple question. > > When a player is doing either PVP or PVE, is the majority of players more likely to be concerned about other Players, or other NPCs? That is a strawman question because NPCs are controlled by AI scripts and thus extremely predictable. Players on the other hand are completely unpredictable. Because of this simple observation, one will always be more weary of the unpredictable than they would the predictable. > [@Solonius\_Rex](#): > > What else are you advocating for, then? You said that the majority of people like a mix of PVP and PVE. Eve already has PVP and PVE. And yet youre also saying that EVE needs to adapt to appeal to more people. Wow really? You think that is all it takes to get people to play a video game? Im not going to educate you on what it takes to run a successful MMO. This one use to be successful and now it isnt. Eve is stagnant, the UI has gotten horrible and unresponsive. They fail to capture the interest of PVPers or PVEers. Most of what is left of the player base is die hards who will ride the ship all the way to the bottom, newbies, and vets coming back for a couple of weeks maybe a couple of months at time to see what changes have been made before clocking out again for a year or two. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/188 "2020-03-12T00:42:27Z")
> [@Thorian\_Baalnorn](#): > > That is a strawman question because NPCs are controlled by AI scripts and thus extremely predictable. Players on the other hand are completely unpredictable. Because of this simple observation, one will always be more weary of the unpredictable than they would the predictable. It’s not a strawman at all, it illustrates a very relevant point: that, as you say, NPCs mindlessly follow a known script and everyone knows how to beat them. PvE in EVE is a menial task and hardly anyone would play EVE for more than a week or two if that’s all there was. The core of the game, the interesting stuff that actually makes people want to stay, is the PvP. > And yet PVE gets so much more love. PvE gets a lot of “love” because PvE requires constant content updates to prevent it from getting boring and becoming a liability. You get a new PvE thing, figure out how to farm it efficiently, and then it becomes just another mindless ISK gathering activity. PvP, on the other hand, has its balance issues but is much more able to take care of itself because players are constantly creating new content. ---
**Author:** ![Amun\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amun_doshu/32/191569_2.png) [@Amun\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amun_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/189 "2020-03-12T00:43:03Z")
thats market pvp, has nothing to do with actual mining 😃 i can just crush all my useless props and undercut all of you without a single drop of mining ---
**Author:** ![Amun\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amun_doshu/32/191569_2.png) [@Amun\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amun_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/190 "2020-03-12T00:44:16Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@Thorian\_Baalnorn](#): > > > > That is a strawman question because NPCs are controlled by AI scripts and thus extremely predictable. Players on the other hand are completely unpredictable. Because of this simple observation, one will always be more weary of the unpredictable than they would the predictable. > > It’s not a strawman at all, it illustrates a very relevant point: that, as you say, NPCs mindlessly follow a known script and everyone knows how to beat them. PvE in EVE is a menial task and hardly anyone would play EVE for more than a week or two if that’s all there was. The core of the game, the interesting stuff that actually makes people want to stay, is the PvP. > > > And yet PVE gets so much more love. > > PvE gets a lot of “love” because PvE requires constant content updates to prevent it from getting boring and becoming a liability. You get a new PvE thing, figure out how to farm it efficiently, and then it becomes just another mindless ISK gathering activity. PvP, on the other hand, has its balance issues but is much more able to take care of itself because players are constantly creating new content. this was many times proven bs. most players in most of their times are playing pve. if pve would be removed you would be probably the last single player left in eve ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/191 "2020-03-12T00:49:28Z")
> [@Amun\_Doshu](#): > > this was many times proven bs. most players in most of their times are playing pve. Nope. The “proof” that is often cited is a complete misunderstanding of the statistics that does not account for the existence of alts. When you look at the entire picture rather than just the number label on the “PvP” column you see that PvP is likely a substantial majority of the game by player count. And that’s not even considering the question of whether a 10 year veteran and a day-old trial account that will never log in again should be counted as equal “players”. > if pve would be removed you would be probably the last single player left in eve Nope. The reality is that EVE would go on just fine in the absence of PvE. Some people would ragequit because they can’t farm anymore, but plenty of industry players would remain to fill production demand. In fact, many of those players would be _happy_ if all of the farmers ragequit because less production means higher prices and more profit. ---
**Author:** ![Amun\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amun_doshu/32/191569_2.png) [@Amun\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amun_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/192 "2020-03-12T00:52:21Z")
“likely” 😃 pfff… thats it, game over 😃 eve would be dead without pve, nobody would sub and buy ships on real cash to pop them en masses in seconds. you clearly have zero clue on this game, i start to think you arent even playing it just trolling the forum ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/193 "2020-03-12T00:53:13Z")
> [@Amun\_Doshu](#): > > nobody would sub and buy ships on real cash to pop them en masses in seconds Again you ignore the fact that industry is PvP. Removing PvE would not remove industry, only missions/anomalies/etc would be removed and those are not necessary for EVE to function. ---
**Author:** ![Amun\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amun_doshu/32/191569_2.png) [@Amun\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amun_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/194 "2020-03-12T00:56:11Z")
you ignore that industry is NOT pvp and you also ignore that many resources, insignias and other resources are coming from missioning that are necessary for your pvp ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/195 "2020-03-12T00:57:05Z")
> [@Amun\_Doshu](#): > > you ignore that industry is NOT pvp Oh really? What determines the success or failure of industry activities? NPCs or the actions of other players you are competing against? > and you also ignore that many resources, insignias and other resources are coming from missioning that are necessary for your pvp {citation needed} Exactly what PvP-relevant resources come from missions? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/196 "2020-03-12T01:05:03Z")
What’s for sure, is that Eve without PVE or without PVP would not be Eve. It’s the mix of the two that gives each one its value. PVP makes PVE worth, and PVE makes PVP possible. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/197 "2020-03-12T01:19:33Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Exactly what PvP-relevant resources come from missions? Targets in pimpmobiles 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Amun\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amun_doshu/32/191569_2.png) [@Amun\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amun_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/198 "2020-03-12T01:22:51Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@Amun\_Doshu](#): > > > > you ignore that industry is NOT pvp > > Oh really? What determines the success or failure of industry activities? NPCs or the actions of other players you are competing against? > > > and you also ignore that many resources, insignias and other resources are coming from missioning that are necessary for your pvp > > {citation needed} > > Exactly what PvP-relevant resources come from missions? the success of industry is 100% decided by randomnumbergenerator… maybe try it for yourself before you post the next bs 😃 because you clearly have no idea what industry means in eve every faction stuff you ever used are coming from lp stores from missionrunners ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/199 "2020-03-12T01:27:54Z")
> [@Amun\_Doshu](#): > > the success of industry is 100% decided by randomnumbergenerator… maybe try it for yourself before you post the next bs 😃 because you clearly have no idea what industry means in eve Oh really? When your item sells on the market and your profit is determined it’s RNG? > every faction stuff you ever used are coming from lp stores from missionrunners Faction stuff is not essential to have PvP. If all faction modules and ammo were removed from the game entirely PvP would go on just fine without them. ---
**Author:** ![Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jonah_gravenstein/32/386819_2.png) [@Jonah\_Gravenstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jonah_Gravenstein)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/200 "2020-03-12T01:28:56Z")
> [@Amun\_Doshu](#): > > the success of industry is 100% decided by randomnumbergenerator Bollocks, while some elements of industry are affected by RNG, most of it is not. Most of the success enjoyed by industrialists is down to their own research and decisions, the area most affected by RNG is invention. ---
**Author:** ![Amun\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amun_doshu/32/191569_2.png) [@Amun\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amun_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 1:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/201 "2020-03-12T01:56:47Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@Amun\_Doshu](#): > > > > the success of industry is 100% decided by randomnumbergenerator… maybe try it for yourself before you post the next bs 😃 because you clearly have no idea what industry means in eve > > Oh really? When your item sells on the market and your profit is determined it’s RNG? when it sells its called market and not industry. you still cannot comprehend > [@](#): > > > every faction stuff you ever used are coming from lp stores from missionrunners > > Faction stuff is not essential to have PvP. If all faction modules and ammo were removed from the game entirely PvP would go on just fine without them. no its not, the newbies would be even less competitive than they are now… ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/202 "2020-03-12T02:08:38Z")
> [@Amun\_Doshu](#): > > when it sells its called market and not industry. you still cannot comprehend JFC are you honestly this stupid? The market sale is the final step in the industry process, the point where the results of your industry work are determined. And no matter what you call it the market is still PvP. > no its not, the newbies would be even less competitive than they are now… … WTF are you going on about here? How would newbies be _less_ competitive if the expensive faction loot they struggle to afford disappeared and everyone was restricted to “normal” stuff? ---
**Author:** ![Amun\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amun_doshu/32/191569_2.png) [@Amun\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amun_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/203 "2020-03-12T02:33:56Z")
you are the stupid. this way missioning is pvp because i sell my loot and faction items 😃 😃 😃 😃 you keep contradicting yourself. industry is pve, like it or not faction items are there to make a newbie competitive to T2 T3 stuff they cant access due to years of skilltraining requirement. Im now absolute sure you dont play this game, the only thing you do is comment utter uneducated rubbish ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/204 "2020-03-12T02:38:24Z")
I see, so now we’re talking about the version of EVE where newbies all buy PLEX to afford faction gear for PvP. \*\*\*\* off and go back to WoW. ---
**Author:** ![Amun\_Doshu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/amun_doshu/32/191569_2.png) [@Amun\_Doshu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Amun_Doshu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 2:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/205 "2020-03-12T02:41:22Z")
wow seems to be your kind of stuff, it fits your mental level kiddo ---
**Author:** ![Thorian\_Baalnorn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thorian_baalnorn/32/187492_2.png) [@Thorian\_Baalnorn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thorian_Baalnorn)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 4:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797/206 "2020-03-12T04:05:16Z")
> [@diamond\_milo\_jomitos](#): > > I would love to see some data on this Compare the data from the economic report to the regions that are producing goods. Unless goons,test, horde are full of bots? I can tell you that in most null alliances anything that is against the TOS will get you removed from alliance rather quickly. These alliances control most of null which produces most of the goods in the game and most of the goods are produced by players with many many alts but they arent bots. > [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](#): > > Dumbass. You’re comparing apples with pears. Exactly like you were. Station trading, competing for relic/data sites, competing for the best ores in the belt, etc for example is pvp in the most broad sense of the term, one not used by anyone in the industry except desperate little nerds trying to make strawman arguments. Is childish insults the only thing you know how to do? Did you get bullied in school… every day last week and so you feel the need to try to take it out on people on the internet where you can hide behind a computer screen? I honestly believe you should consult a therapist or psychologist, the school counselor, someone besides your imaginary friend to help you sort through your issues. > [@McNoz](#): > > Do what I did. Take a 10 year break and EVE is great when you return. Obviously you need a longer break. Is that because you remember NOTHING about the game except it has spaceships and stuff? So its like playing it for the very first time? > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Sorry if the truth hurts, but it’s still true. EVE is a PvP-focused game with some minor PvE elements. Take away PvP and EVE is dead within a month. Take away PvE and the game continues on. LOL you do know that 90% of the time when people undock its to do pvp activities. IF what you said were true when any alliance i ever been in had 100-200-300 people online and a CTA was called even with guaranteed action and kills as sweeteners almost ALL of those in the alliances would fleet up and be eager to go. But thats not the case is it? Alliances have to beg, threaten and bribe to get people to show up. They will literally GIVE YOU SHIP IF YOU WILL JUST COME PVP. This game might have started out as heavily pvp with some pve back in 2004 or so, but by time i got here in 2007 PVP was already on the way out with the loss of lowsec pirating which use to be a huge thing. PVP has been in a steady decline since then. And they have added more pve based things to do while pvp based has taken a back seat and gets thrown a cookie every once in a while. If the devs cared about pvp they would have fixed Fozzie sov within the first year after its release. People STILL complain about it all the time even now and it has been years. PVPers said " No this will make things worse" and CCP said your wrong you just play the game, we built it. And here we are with broken sov mechanics that maybe 1% of null people like. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Industry and trade are PvP activities. What is with this strawman argument? Do people think if they try to convince us building Merlins and Rifter is competing with other players and thus PVP we will accept this argument. Look i get it, i love pvp. But i dont keep trying to throw white stripes on a black horse and convince everyone its a zebra. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Could you speak English please? You realize going after someones language on a game forum in which a good chunk of the players do **NOT** have English as a first language is petty and naive right? > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Nope, not even close. Please remember that mining, industry, market manipulation, etc, are PvP activities. You keep selling those imitation girl scout cookies, you’re bound to convince someone that is completely new…to the internet. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Nope. Mining and industry are both activities where your success or failure is determined by competition against other players. IOW, textbook PvP. You realize if your definition was true PVE would only exist in places in which you never had to compete or could be affected by other players. You know what they call that type of game? SINGLE PLAYER. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-eve/224797.md?page=11)