# What happened to the community? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 8, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182 "2019-12-08T02:35:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Rebecca\_Chran](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rebecca_chran/32/174594_2.png) [@Rebecca\_Chran](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rebecca_Chran)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/141 "2019-12-19T20:32:04Z")
Take 10 leaders in every field (pve, passive income, null pvp, low pvp, high pvp, j-space pvp, low level industrial, high level industrial, alliance/coalition diplomats and strategists, etc) and have them formulate some ideas in a proper format with a decent peer reviewing system. We need a New Eden Enlightenment of sorts to formulate the future. We’ll get much better content and much better answers to problems that we’ve been sitting on for years. ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/142 "2019-12-19T20:36:41Z")
> [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > it would have been better to hire developers who have played the game for an X number of years. That is how we ended up with one of the best expansions ever, Apocrypha. And it was made in just a few months. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/143 "2019-12-20T07:50:05Z")
> [@Theron\_Larkis](#): > > And it was made in just a few months. Everything moved faster back then because they had also White Wolf devs they used as spare manpower. CCP was a lot bigger. Since then they downsized a lot, CCP is half of their former manpower that was around 2010 or so. With constant failures came downsizes of dev crews and then community devs, and community followed, leaving, like disgruntled customer. Instead of EVE community dying out, it will shrivel up to a half-dessicated cow, feed moldy HyperCores and milked by last member of CCP, Hilmar himself, with PA manager standing nearby shouting “강하게! 강하게!” in Korean. The community will be sprouting on forum occasionally, for example in a form of Scoots Choco. Nobody will want to touch the almost-skeleton cow eventually and Hilmar will one last time milk the life away from it and pass everything, just a few drops, to his Korean master. Party while you still can, the orchestra is still playing. 🥳 ---
**Author:** ![Theron\_Larkis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/theron_larkis/32/170573_2.png) [@Theron\_Larkis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Theron_Larkis)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/144 "2019-12-20T11:14:13Z")
Apocrypha was made by very few devs, in a very short time. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 11:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/145 "2019-12-20T11:20:03Z")
> Repeatedly, staff were shifted over from the former to work on expansion projects for the latter. At times, our sources say, the entire WoD staff was put onto Eve, particularly during the development of 2009 add-on Apocrypha. > **[World of Darkness - the inside story on the death of a game](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf)** > > This April, the long-awaited multiplayer game World of Darkness was cancelled. Ian G Williams explores how bad management hubris wasted nearly a decade of work ---
**Author:** ![Vera\_Rainsong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vera_rainsong/32/175200_2.png) [@Vera\_Rainsong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vera_Rainsong)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2019, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/146 "2019-12-20T12:36:38Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Speaking as someone who has worked for those companies for two years, i can tell you the real issue is not actually the loot boxes as much as it is the investors demanding the constant increase of income. Something I agree with you on. This is absolutely the problem with the industry. It’s not “games for gamers” anymore, it’s “games for profit.” Show me a AAA gaming company whose CEO is someone that actually has played games their whole life. > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Investors really need to take a step back and start helping a company grow in a way they can support multiple games, and as a result drive up annual income. Loot boxes are a good solution to the issue of constant desire for increased income, but thats not actually what is best for the customer / playerbase. I think EA finally just realized this with Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order. No gimmicks, no loot boxes, just a good game game, that seems to be selling very well. > [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > I will say though, development costs are expensive and the player base really needs to meet us developers in the middle on what they will spend money on, and it should not be forced (like injectors) or gimmicky like alpha/omega status. Agreed again. CCP has had many opportunities over the years with several ideas for content that were never fully implemented, or finished, that quite possibly could have made this game **the** game to be playing in the mmo genre. Too costly? Too time consuming? Too technical? I imagine a little of everything, but had some of those things been added over the years I’d be willing to bet they’d have enough of a player base today that they never would have implemented some of these “non-content features” (cough cough skill injectors) we have today. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/147 "2019-12-21T02:57:30Z")
> [@Vera\_Rainsong](#): > > Something I agree with you on. This is absolutely the problem with the industry. It’s not “games for gamers” anymore, it’s “games for profit.” Show me a AAA gaming company whose CEO is someone that actually has played games their whole life. Whats ironic is that successful or even good companies (like blizzard etc) have ceo’s with degree’s in business, even though they have extensive code capability. ---
**Author:** ![Vera\_Rainsong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vera_rainsong/32/175200_2.png) [@Vera\_Rainsong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vera_Rainsong)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2019, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/148 "2019-12-21T13:09:53Z")
Blizzard used to be good. Unfortunately, it’s not Blizzard any longer, it’s Activision/Blizzard, and Kotick is sure as ■■■■ dragging that former great game company through the mud. Bethesda might actually be even worse. As much as I don’t like Todd Howard, I can’t put the fall of that company squarely on his shoulders. Robert Altman is one shady individual, and quite honestly probably should be in jail, but there he is running another once great game studio into the ground. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 5:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/149 "2019-12-22T05:23:54Z")
Its a rough world as the founder / ceo of a gaming studio, believe me. Production companies have a massive monopoly on it, and they have their hands in all of it. You gotta get good like (make your own game) minecraft good to avoid that drama. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 5:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/150 "2019-12-22T05:35:24Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Its a rough world as the founder / ceo of a gaming studio, believe me. Oh, so now you’re escalating your fraudulent credentials to claiming to be a CEO/founder? ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 5:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/151 "2019-12-22T05:36:28Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Oh, so now you’re escalating your fraudulent credentials to claiming to be a CEO/founder? what part of “Working on my game” did you not get? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 5:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/152 "2019-12-22T05:39:13Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > what part of “Working on my game” did you not get? The part where a CEO/founder is doing the coding work that normally goes to an entry-level software engineer instead of dealing with high-level management concerns. Either you’re lying about the whole thing, or you’re a one-person “company” and adding a meaningless CEO title to fluff up your credentials and impress people who are too ignorant to know the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 5:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/153 "2019-12-22T05:41:14Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > The part where a CEO/founder is doing the coding work that normally goes to an entry-level software engineer instead of dealing with high-level management concerns. Either you’re lying about the whole thing, or you’re a one-person “company” and adding a meaningless CEO title to fluff up your credentials and impress people who are too ignorant to know the truth. Or we are a small Indy team. Why do we have to be massive? > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Either you’re lying about the whole thing, or you’re a one-person “company” and adding a meaningless CEO title to fluff up your credentials and impress people who are too ignorant to know the truth. Wait, so now im a ceo that is fluffing my position to be better then what you said im not, ie a dev? Like i said, you really need help at this whole debate thing. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 5:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/154 "2019-12-22T05:44:01Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > Why do we have to be massive? Because “CEO” by definition involves high-level management work that only exists for a large business. A CEO for a small team is a CEO in name only, usually someone trying to fluff up a resume for their next job or pick up dates at a bar. > Wait, so now im a ceo that is fluffing my position to be better then what you said im not, ie a dev? Like i said, you really need help at this whole debate thing. It’s not that complicated. I’m pointing out the fact that even if we grant the incredibly generous assumption that you’re telling the truth about being a developer you’re still lying about being a CEO. There is no escape from the conclusion that you are a liar and a fraud, only the question of exactly how much lying you are guilty of. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 5:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/155 "2019-12-22T05:47:48Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Because “CEO” by definition involves high-level management work that only exists for a large business. A CEO for a small team is a CEO in name only, usually someone trying to fluff up a resume for their next job or pick up dates at a bar. So you dont like that im a ceo, because i dont run a company with a few hundred people or more, and there for ceo means nothing? Ya, i dont think it works that way there captain dumbass. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > It’s not that complicated. I’m pointing out the fact that even if we grant the incredibly generous assumption that you’re telling the truth about being a developer you’re still lying about being a CEO. There is no escape from the conclusion that you are a liar and a fraud, only the question of exactly how much lying you are guilty of. Because you said so? I Got it, your opinion is now ultimate truth? Yea… I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 5:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/156 "2019-12-22T05:53:02Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > So you dont like that im a ceo, because i dont run a company with a few hundred people or more, and there for ceo means nothing? No, I am simply pointing out the fact that you are not a CEO in any meaningful sense of the term. Whether I like it or not is irrelevant. > Because you said so? No, because: 1. “CEO” has an actual definition that involves high-level management work that does not exist for a small team. Yes, you can make a low-quality mobile game in your free time and call yourself the “CEO” of your one-person company but that doesn’t make the title anything but empty boasting and/or dishonest resume fluffing. So, given the fact that you admit that your company is a small team, claiming to be a CEO is lying. 2. You have claimed to be doing hands-on coding work on this game, something that is far outside the scope of a CEO’s job responsibilities. You can put “CEO” on your resume all you like but if that’s not the work you are doing then you aren’t a CEO. (That is, if your game/company even exist at all outside of your own imagination, which you still have yet to prove.) ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 6:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/157 "2019-12-22T06:00:32Z")
Yaw…nnn… I think your salty because you know your company is on its way out and dont like the fact that you know im right 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/158 "2019-12-22T06:27:20Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > I think your salty because you know your company is on its way out and dont like the fact that you know im right I see we’re back to this tinfoil hat nonsense about me being a CCP alt again? But if I’m an alt of the CEO doesn’t that mean that I’m far more successful than your “small indy team” given the fact that CCP has made millions in profit and just sold for almost half a billion dollars? Sounds like “my” company is doing way better than yours. The simple fact here is that you have nothing but lies and ignorance and can’t provide any thing more than “LOL UR SALTY” when called on your lies because there is no truth behind any of it. You are a fraud and a narcissist and should be ashamed of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Naari\_Naarian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/naari_naarian/32/173077_2.png) [@Naari\_Naarian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Naari_Naarian)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/159 "2019-12-22T06:31:44Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > But if I’m an alt of the CEO doesn’t that mean that I’m far more successful than your “small indy team” That could only be validated by me launching the game and failing to surpass your income, or population rates. Not really all that hard to do, considering kixeye is over there launching 3-5 million price tag flash games that are putting out more pop and income then you could of dreamed over. kinda makes you really feel like the pleb you really are, dont it? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2019, 6:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182/160 "2019-12-22T06:34:49Z")
> [@Naari\_Naarian](#): > > That could only be validated by me launching the game and failing to surpass your income, or population rates. Yaaaawn. Empty boasting is easy, don’t waste our time with this nonsense until you actually launch a profitable game and are willing to name the games you have worked on. Until then everyone will believe, with good reason, that you are nothing more than a narcissist and a fraud. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-community/205182.md?page=9)