# What happened to the "High Sec Expansion" we were promised? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 20, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270 "2018-01-20T14:06:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Coralas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/coralas/32/11762_2.png) [@Coralas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Coralas)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/181 "2018-01-25T23:27:35Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > Those are data based on player behavior. Stop making special cases to deny that a) highsec PvE was by far the thing that the majority of players did and b) certainly that might not be true now, as PCU is down by 14% since those data were gathered. Yearly average in 2014 was 41,000 users, and last year 2017 was 35,000 users after the F2P boost. I don’t care in the slightest what players did in 2015. I’m pointing out that there is real evidence to suggest that the figures of 2015 do not match the figures of 2018. > [@](#): > > And guess what looks emptier? Highsec. Guess what’s doing CCP to stay in business? Milking players. Good! It may have been very costly to keep churning new players into highsec and losing them to boredom. > [@](#): > > Frankly, IMHO, it would have been easier to just add new missions rather than all the failed attempts by CCP to make the horses drink from the water CCP wanted. We’ve already had that debate. Adding a new mission is a total of like an hours entertainment. Moving to a new space altogether and running all the new content is much, much more. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Lopez](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_lopez/32/484486_2.png) [@Mr\_Lopez](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Lopez)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/182 "2018-01-25T23:34:23Z")
Or they should interact with their wallets and leave? I guess thats what ya mean? ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2018, 11:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/183 "2018-01-25T23:35:08Z")
> [@Coralas](#): > > I don’t care in the slightest what players did in 2015. I’m pointing out that there is real evidence to suggest that the figures of 2015 do not match the figures of 2018. Indeed. I don’t have the chart handy, but highsec activity (jumps, NPC kills) is down about 40% since 2015. The numbers presented above must no longer true. Meanwhile nullsec activity is up about 25% if I recall correctly, albeit from a much smaller starting level. That means there has been an exodous of players over those years, but CCP has had some success stoking nullsec activity. Monday morning quarterback CCPs decisions all you want, but remember when dragging out 3 year old statistics that there has been a significant demographic shift of the players during that time. ---
**Author:** ![Ranzabar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ranzabar/32/254217_2.png) [@Ranzabar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ranzabar)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/184 "2018-01-26T03:09:26Z")
CCP’s been doing Eve for 15 years. So you’d think they’d really know their customers. And maybe they do. No so much the many people in hi-sec. They come and go. But their hardcore base in null-sec & WH s[ace that will subscribe, perhaps with multiple accounts no matter what. The loyal crowd. Smaller but more valuable than the damn hi-sec carebear miners that sit in station half the time spinning their Retreiver fretting over the market for Scordite. (Me) Sure I want my lame life in 1.0 Blameston to be thrilling. Where are the thousands of mining ships in system crossing beams and bouncing drones off each other? Why do I have a corporation of one? Hey CCP, throw us a fricking bone and invest a little time in our corner of the universe. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 7:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/185 "2018-01-26T07:17:35Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Indeed. I don’t have the chart handy, but highsec activity (jumps, NPC kills) is down about 40% since 2015. The numbers presented above must no longer true. > > Meanwhile nullsec activity is up about 25% if I recall correctly, albeit from a much smaller starting level. That means there has been an exodous of players over those years, but CCP has had some success stoking nullsec activity. > > Monday morning quarterback CCPs decisions all you want, but remember when dragging out 3 year old statistics that there has been a significant demographic shift of the players during that time. if you don’t have a handy chart can you tell us where do you get those numbers? All current topic discussion is pointless if this is true. I didn’t see a huge shift as you described. WWB and F2P rush is hard to count as a trend. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 7:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/186 "2018-01-26T07:31:13Z")
I’ve posted them before and I will again when. I get the chance, but Dotlan has been recording such activity data from the API for years. For example, here are last year’s numbers: > **[DOTLAN EveMaps: Stats from 2017](http://evemaps.dotlan.net/stats/2017)** > > DOTLAN EveMaps is the leading online/interactive map/alliance/corporation resource database for Eve Online ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 8:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/187 "2018-01-26T08:06:35Z")
Well, this data is raw and general to make as high assumptions as you made. Let’s take a look at Jumps, Ship kills, and faction kills (I assume it’s npc kills) on 2015-2017 timeframe: Jumps for hisec are more or less constant, for lowsec are dropping, for nullsec is rising. hard to tell if that shows bleeding players from lowsec, WWB war, shift in sub model to F2P, this may even show changes in sov system (node catching require more travel). I don’t hisec bleed here. Ship kills for hisec risen in 2017 (alphas propablly) for lowsec is dropping for nullsec is rising possitive change for hisec and nullsec, but what hides behind it? There was a stagnation before fozzie sov. Is this show shift from hisec to null? Faction kills for hisec risen in 2017 for lowsec in decresing for nullsec is almost doubled between 2015 and 2017 what this is telling us? AFK farms? Carrier ratting (there was a change in the way)? 1,5 bilion kills in hisec vs 2,6 bilion kills in null. Hard to measure anything with those digits. For statistics we would have to remove goons activity from the data because they overestimate the nullsec sample. ---
**Author:** ![Mina\_Sebiestar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mina_sebiestar/32/502522_2.png) [@Mina\_Sebiestar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mina_Sebiestar)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 8:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/188 "2018-01-26T08:26:19Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > for nullsec is almost doubled between 2015 and 2017 carebearing mode engage ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 8:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/189 "2018-01-26T08:26:46Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > It proves there is no antagonism between HS and NS. It proves that “Why people stay in hisec?” is a bad question, as it implies people had to make a choice. It proves that the way you formulate your question is reducing the state of the game to dichotomy. Nothing more, please don’t take it personally. true and there no should be such thing as antagonism between security status space, you are right. Question should be: how much of your gameplay time you spend in hisec? > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > But would you do anything “against” another player? Would you compete with them in some other way that did not involve destroying his spaceship? ofc. People tend to forget that there is no “single player” gameplay mode in mmo. Even when I’m playing solo I’m not alone, there are thousands other players around me, and I’m competing with them all the time even if I don’t shoot them. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > I expect to be able to affect the outcome of my game. What do YOU expect? a sandbox that don’t telling me building empire and fight tidi wars is the only option I can get from it, because it’s not sandbox. It’s empire space simulator. Do you think if they get rid of all exploration sites and just seed items from them into the market, would it affect empire space simulator? This is pretending that EvE is vast, it’s not, scratch the surface and it’s inch depth. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Several people regularly do. > > But either way its either change the game for the majority, or seperate high sec off as much as possible so it is its own protected server where no one can harm anyone. currently all we get is changing game for minority, and recent “battle” shows that CCP have no tech to provide that kind of gameplay. > [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > And that’s never going to happen. High sec players are the least engaged players. A few posts above shows a chart in which its easy to see that the groups that high sec players belong to have fewer log in hours. there you go, then CCP should change their attitude. Rather try to keep hisec players in game they develop game to those who stays anyway. If you have a company you wouldn’t expand it? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/190 "2018-01-26T09:22:25Z")
Mayhew, if you are going to ask questions without reference to your own stated position on things, then theres no reason to answer them. Youve made it very clear previously what your opinion is. And before you say “show me”, YOU show ME where you have stated high sec pvp is something you support. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 9:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/191 "2018-01-26T09:24:26Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > currently all we get is changing game for minority There is literally only evidence to support the opposite. High Sec has had tweak after tweak after addition. WHs and LS have had nothing and NS has only things that make it LESS interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/192 "2018-01-26T09:47:25Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > High Sec has had tweak after tweak after addition. what tweaks reserved for hisec only? If you are talking about FOBs and RW it’s last additions and didn’t sell very well. They were first hisec only addons for years. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > WHs and LS have had nothing and NS has only things that make it LESS interesting. what things make NS less interesting? ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/193 "2018-01-26T09:52:08Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > what tweaks reserved for hisec only? > [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > If you are talking about FOBs and RW it’s last additions and didn’t sell very well. They were first hisec only addons for years Theres two examples you gave youself. Whether you like them or not is utterly irrelevant to the fact they are high sec additions. Moon goo for high sec is the next, how this is being ignored by the pro high crowd I have no idea. Presumably you will cry that the nullers will muscle you out for not reacting as soon as it hits. What apart from awful cit sieges has changed in null? Has sov become interesting or even sliwer and more boring than ever? If its not, where are the wars? Why is it so empty? ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/194 "2018-01-26T10:24:52Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Theres two examples you gave youself. > > Whether you like them or not is utterly irrelevant to the fact they are high sec additions. > > Moon goo for high sec is the next, how this is being ignored by the pro high crowd I have no idea. Presumably you will cry that the nullers will muscle you out for not reacting as soon as it hits. I did, but you wrote > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > tweak after tweak after addition. so maybe I’m bitching about something I don’t know. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > What apart from awful cit sieges has changed in null? Has sov become interesting or even sliwer and more boring than ever? > > If its not, where are the wars? Why is it so empty? Why so empty? Let’s assume the chart linked by Yiole with players labels describe average gaming community (I hope the sample for those are high enough to be statisticaly viable). Now no matter what you do (ad to gameplay) you won’t change people itself. So if player like me is not interested in playing this: [Million dollar battle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsZRAIVci00) there is nothing CCP can do to draw be there. CCP want to change their players into something they don’t want to change. When I’m talking about improving my gameplay experience, for example more entertaning pve (benefit for all, right?), where does it say I want to nerf someone else gameplay? ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 10:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/195 "2018-01-26T10:27:21Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > YOU show ME where you have stated high sec pvp is something you support. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about and it’s not my job to clue you in. I’m sorry. Maybe check a nearby thread. I’m not going to attempt to refute all the things you’re making up in your head. If you think I’m against PVP or high sec PVP, quote where you think I said so and I’ll be happy to explain why you’re dead wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 10:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/196 "2018-01-26T10:28:09Z")
Oh look just as I predicted. I already asked you to show the opposite and as usual you just quack on with your gibberish. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/197 "2018-01-26T10:31:23Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > So if player like me is not interested in playing this: > > Million dollar battle > > there is nothing CCP can do to draw be there. CCP want to change their players into something they don’t want to change. Exactly what Im saying. The above is of no interest to anyone who doesnt have a vested interest in that. In what way has that debacle made null look or play any better? It hasnt. High has had far more attention but its just not enough until its all there is and theres nothing to do but PvE. Its the way its going and you should be happy. You have won. ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/198 "2018-01-26T12:01:12Z")
Again, this discussion is WHY we keep…having this discussion lol. It’s the same tune, it’s like people in this thread are non-ironically asking: “CCP, why aren’t you spending time and money trying to please your least loyal, least active, least social customers!!!” **_We just had a high sec/PVE focused expansion_** FOBs and Resource Wars exist. Alphas can use Battleships (and are doing level 4 missions and even Incursions with them). And yet the complaints stay the exact same. Pointing this out will get me called a troll again, and it will generate encyclopedia levels of responses in this thread that is fast closing in on 200 posts. 200 posts by people who could be doing something productive to promote High Sec (thus showing CCP that high sec has values which in turn would generate more developer attention) instead of wasting time writing 200 useless complaint posts on a forum that CCP _still_ ignores. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/199 "2018-01-26T12:07:04Z")
> [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > Again, this discussion is WHY we keep…having this discussion lol. It’s the same tune, it’s like people in this thread are non-ironically asking: “CCP, why aren’t you spending time and money trying to please your least loyal, least active, least social customers!!!” they are less active and least social customers then why they got: > [@Jenn\_aSide](#): > > We just had a high sec/PVE focused expansion FOBs and Resource Wars exist. 😶 for whom is this expansion then? I don’t see the point of it. ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270/200 "2018-01-26T12:11:27Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > they are less active and least social customers then why they got: > > Jenn\_aSide: > > We just had a high sec/PVE focused expansion FOBs and Resource Wars exist. > > 😶 > > for whom is this expansion then? I don’t see the point of it. The thing is FOB’s and RW are nothing like the content most highsec dwellers want. So actually the “High Sec Expansion” just reinforced the view that CCP don’t want the typical high sec player. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270.md?page=9) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-happened-to-the-high-sec-expansion-we-were-promised/52270.md?page=11)