# What has happened to this game? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 25, 2021, 9:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226 "2021-07-25T09:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/269 "2021-07-26T13:22:04Z")
There is no gangbang. You’re just in a hyper-vocal minority, but are too arrogant, jaded, and bitter to realize it. You accuse every single new poster who doesn’t share your viewpoint of the game as being an alt of one of your sworn enemies, as if new players or forum visitors aren’t allowed to hold opinions that aren’t in line with your own. You’re your own worst enemy. Wake up already. ---
**Author:** ![Ricky\_Tock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ricky_tock/32/297351_2.png) [@Ricky\_Tock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ricky_Tock)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/270 "2021-07-26T13:22:57Z")
This thread has become moronic. “My side is correct-- no, _my_ side is correct!” All the while, ignoring the fact that rookies like me enjoy the threat of ganking. “All these bittervets don’t know what the rookie wants, so let me, another bittervet, tell you what the rookie wants!” We want terror. We want adrenaline. We want excitement. Without ample danger, my pixels mean nothing. If this game becomes too safe, all the time I have spent playing will mean sht. Nerf ganking and lose any hope at retaining players like me who dislike all other video games and play EvE specifically because it is the hardest game on the internet. But okay, let’s keep guessing what other social groups want-- with unequivocal accuracy, surely. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/271 "2021-07-26T13:23:50Z")
Oh look, _another_ one of my alts is posting. I’m actually running out of alts now. To the character creator! ---
**Author:** ![Ricky\_Tock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ricky_tock/32/297351_2.png) [@Ricky\_Tock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ricky_Tock)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/272 "2021-07-26T13:25:25Z")
Unequivocally correct observation, based on countless years of internet and EvE online expert research, surely! Your intuition is infallible, as is mine, since my paranoid ideations manifest themselves into obvious reality, after careful scrutinity on my part, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Olorion\_Endergard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/olorion_endergard/32/300165_2.png) [@Olorion\_Endergard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Olorion_Endergard)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/273 "2021-07-26T13:26:11Z")
I think it’s strange that most people here seem to think/argue that ganking is always 1v1 scenario and that if the industrial player couldn’t get away they did something wrong essentially ‘git gud’. The truth is if you get warp scrambled/webbed in an industrial/ore there is no counterplay. Everyone I have met who ganks regularly goes out with at least one tackler and 1 (or more) high alpha strike ships. Most of them multi-box. Ships can drop right on top of you. They can decloak you easily. They can lock you well before you can warp even if you are aligned. Even in high sec, Concord does nothing because the fight is over well before they show up. And if you think you’re somewhat safe because you tanked your skiff/orca/mastodon etc. in high sec…you’re not. They will just bring more ships to do the job. There are vets in this game who have bank accounts in the tens or hundreds of billions and they will happily gank in T2 or T3 fits just for the ‘heck of it’ or because they felt like flying that ship; without being concerned about any losses on their behalf (because they own stacks of these ships). They are bored and you are ‘content’ to them. This is what new/returning people need to be told so that they have realistic expectations about doing anything Indy related in this game. If you can handle that then GLHF, if not then you should probably play something else. ---
**Author:** ![Ricky\_Tock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ricky_tock/32/297351_2.png) [@Ricky\_Tock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ricky_Tock)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/274 "2021-07-26T13:26:48Z")
> [@Olorion\_Endergard](#): > > you should probably play something else HoW tOxIc Of YoU. ---
**Author:** ![Olorion\_Endergard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/olorion_endergard/32/300165_2.png) [@Olorion\_Endergard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Olorion_Endergard)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/275 "2021-07-26T13:27:51Z")
> [@Ricky\_Tock](#): > > HoW tOxIc Of YoU. Just tempering expectations is all. Most people find out what I just said the hard way and then quit. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/277 "2021-07-26T13:28:24Z")
> [@Olorion\_Endergard](#): > > The truth is if you get warp scrambled/webbed in an industrial/ore there is no counterplay. At that point there is very little counterplay indeed. Most of the counterplay as a gank targets involves the choices made before you get warp scrambled/webbed. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/278 "2021-07-26T13:30:18Z")
> [@Olorion\_Endergard](#): > > And if you think you’re somewhat safe because you tanked your skiff/orca/mastodon etc. in high sec…you’re not. They will just bring more ships to do the job. There are vets in this game who have bank accounts in the tens or hundreds of billions and they will happily gank in T2 or T3 fits just for the ‘heck of it’ or because they felt like flying that ship; without being concerned about any losses on their behalf (because they own stacks of these ships). They are bored and you are ‘content’ to them. Before you post more conjecture, how about you go and provide at least **one** kill mail of someone deliberately suicide-ganking in a T2 or T3 ship (not an accidental misfire, which would be evident from the kill mail trail)? If you do, I’ll **buy** you that ship. I’ll even buy you five of them. ---
**Author:** ![Ricky\_Tock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ricky_tock/32/297351_2.png) [@Ricky\_Tock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ricky_Tock)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/279 "2021-07-26T13:30:44Z")
Sorry, was too many levels of irony deep. I’m not sure how “most players” hop into this game without knowing it is the hardest and most unforgiving MMO in existence. Perhaps there should be a specific warning like that before playing: _Warning: Not for the small of constitution. New Eden is the scariest space on the World Wide Web. No other game is made for the sole purpose of your torture._ Then at least we can say “I told you so” instead of explaining it all. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/280 "2021-07-26T13:31:17Z")
@DeMichael_Crimson Here’s another one: > **[Dramiel | Trigger45 | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/94131369/)** > > Trigger45 (RAM corp) lost their Dramiel in Kamio (The Citadel) Total Value: 57,790,470.17 ISK 2005 character, has been playing the game 13+ years longer than me. I’m just a newbro, fighting against carebear bittervets, who pretend they want to nerf me in order to help the newbros. The fact of the matter is ganking improves new player retention, and bitter bears want to remove ganking because they are LAZY and don’t like energetic successful new players. Cue up: Gankers only shoot ships that can’t shoot back, 1v1 me in lowsec. ---
**Author:** ![Olorion\_Endergard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/olorion_endergard/32/300165_2.png) [@Olorion\_Endergard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Olorion_Endergard)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/281 "2021-07-26T13:35:27Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Before you post more conjecture This is my anecdotal experience in playing the game and the people I talk to in chat/Discord while playing it. I am in no way advocating for changing ganking as the PvP in Eve is what makes this game unique to play. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/282 "2021-07-26T13:38:02Z")
> [@Olorion\_Endergard](#): > > This is my anecdotal experience in playing the game and the people I talk to in chat/Discord while playing it. I am in no way advocating for changing ganking as the PvP in Eve is what makes this game unique to play. That is your **invented** anecdotal experience. You would not be able to provide such a suicide-gank kill mail, nor would anyone you’re ever spoken with. People can say a lot of things, but that doesn’t make them true. You’ve just judged an entire game based on assumed evidence that I’m sure doesn’t even exist. It was convenient for you to say it for your argument that ganking is bad/imbalanced/whatever, so you did. And this is _exactly_ what most people who try to argue against ganking do; they just _invent_ truths that are convenient for _them_. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/283 "2021-07-26T13:38:48Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > And this is _exactly_ what most people who try to argue against ganking do; they just _invent_ truths that are convenient for _them_. @Matterall and @Olmeca_Gold said this strategy is straight out of the alt-right playbook. ---
**Author:** ![Ricky\_Tock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ricky_tock/32/297351_2.png) [@Ricky\_Tock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ricky_Tock)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/284 "2021-07-26T13:39:39Z")
I’ll just leave this here: [Logical fallacy - RationalWiki](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy) ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/285 "2021-07-26T13:42:34Z")
Some people like the threat of ganking, others do not. What do you think my side is? Because I am not against ganking being in the game, but what I want is more balanced counter play and options for individual counter play. But you are telling me I am on a side that wants no ganking. The gankers like to paint it as an all or nothing debate, such as when I pushed bumping being an issue and helped get it changed to something sensible, I was told that it would end freighter ganking, it did not. Over the years many players have left Eve due to ganking, the biggest loss was after the change to the destroyer -25% ROF penalty and it took two and a half years for CCP to change the tank of mining barges and exhumers, they could not have done that if there was no problem with retention would they. In fact they missed it because so many players joined because of big battles. Players want options that reward them for good play. @Olorion_Endergard gets it totally. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/286 "2021-07-26T13:43:04Z")
This is exactly what like at _least_ half of all negative reviewers on Steam do. They put in a bunch of frothy-mouthed word salad about how the griefers are killing new players 24/7 and that’s why they quit the game, and when you ask them to talk about their own experience being killed by these griefers, they say that it never happened to them but that’s what they heard from other players, so EVE must suck! Just goes to prove that toxic carebear vets are the party most responsible for steering players away from the game. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/287 "2021-07-26T13:43:52Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Cue up: Gankers only shoot ships that can’t shoot back, 1v1 me in lowsec. Already said I don’t care what you have to say. And if you’re challenging me to a duel, you can come to Rens system. ---
**Author:** ![Quentin\_Schaefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quentin_schaefer/32/471507_2.png) [@Quentin\_Schaefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Quentin_Schaefer)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/288 "2021-07-26T13:44:04Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Just goes to prove that toxic carebear vets are the party most responsible for steering players away from the game That’s on Steam, though. Only idiots buy Eve on Steam. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/289 "2021-07-26T13:45:29Z")
> [@Quentin\_Schaefer](#): > > That’s on Steam, though. Only idiots buy Eve on Steam. It’s the only review aggregator we have, and the sample size is _really large_. Also, these days Steam is responsible for a much higher chunk of EVE’s new players than before. Around a third of all new players come from Steam. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Over the years many players have left Eve due to ganking, the biggest loss was after the change to the destroyer -25% ROF penalty and it took two and a half years for CCP to change the tank of mining barges and exhumers, they could not have done that if there was no problem with retention would they. In fact they missed it because so many players joined because of big battles. You realize that if people wouldn’t use destroyers, they’d use cruisers instead, right? The only practical difference between a Catalyst and a Thorax is like 5M ISK and slightly lower agility. But the DPS is actually moderately higher. People use destroyers because it’s the _most_ economically-viable option, not because it’s the _only_ viable option. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226.md?page=13)