# What has happened to this game? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 25, 2021, 9:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226 "2021-07-25T09:55:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Olorion\_Endergard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/olorion_endergard/32/300165_2.png) [@Olorion\_Endergard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Olorion_Endergard)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/290 "2021-07-26T13:48:47Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > **invented** anecdotal experience You can look at my last kill mail. Where I was killed in a retriever by an arazu (T2) and Cynabal (pirate faction). Tell me ‘oh wise one’ in what way could I have survived that attack in my little retriever vs. two ships whose base cost is nearly 400million? Go on I’ll wait for you to tell me that I’m a bad player making stuff up. Btw I’m not arguing against ganking or gate camps or PvP. Hopefully a new person will read my post before they dip their toes into mining/indy and not get so upset when they get killed is all. [https://zkillboard.com/kill/94024413/](https://zkillboard.com/kill/94024413/) ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/291 "2021-07-26T13:50:42Z")
But that’s not a gank??? You were killed in low-sec. Your post was referencing suicide-ganking specifically. Your wording even makes mention of losing their ship as an effect of that gank, which is a non-issue in low-sec. So yeah, don’t move the goal posts. ---
**Author:** ![Ricky\_Tock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ricky_tock/32/297351_2.png) [@Ricky\_Tock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ricky_Tock)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/292 "2021-07-26T13:51:05Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > But you are telling me I am on a side that wants no ganking. Not sure if you were replying to me, as the post option top-right indicates, but I haven’t extrapolated opinions into facts in this thread, yet. ---
**Author:** ![Olorion\_Endergard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/olorion_endergard/32/300165_2.png) [@Olorion\_Endergard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Olorion_Endergard)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/293 "2021-07-26T13:52:08Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > But that’s not a gank??? You were killed in low-sec. The OP was talking about being killed in high-sec. ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/294 "2021-07-26T13:52:14Z")
I mean, even the post he responded to, explicitly said suicide gank. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You would not be able to provide such a **suicide-gank** kill mail, nor would anyone you’re ever spoken with. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/295 "2021-07-26T13:53:01Z")
But _you_ weren’t. Let me quote you again: > [@Olorion\_Endergard](#): > > And if you think you’re somewhat safe because you tanked your skiff/orca/mastodon etc. in high sec…you’re not. They will just bring more ships to do the job. **There are vets in this game who have bank accounts in the tens or hundreds of billions and they will happily gank in T2 or T3 fits just for the ‘heck of it’ or because they felt like flying that ship; without being concerned about any losses on their behalf (because they own stacks of these ships).** They are bored and you are ‘content’ to them. Bolded the important part. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/296 "2021-07-26T13:53:11Z")
I have to say you have a my respect and are to me a real Eve player, you went into lowsec and took a risk. You can improve your chances by using a more suitable ship I used the T2 ice mining frigate to mine ice in lowsec, and your only option is to get out and cloak. But you have balls. > [@Ricky\_Tock](#): > > Not sure if you were replying to me, as the post option top-right indicates, but I haven’t extrapolated opinions into facts in this thread, yet. I was talking to you, and you expressed an opinion about what rookies want, some want what you want and others do not. ---
**Author:** ![Olorion\_Endergard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/olorion_endergard/32/300165_2.png) [@Olorion\_Endergard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Olorion_Endergard)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/297 "2021-07-26T13:54:38Z")
The point I was trying to make is that if somebody wants to kill you in an indy/ore. It doesn’t really matter where you are. You can’t stop it. There is no counterplay. Maybe in the mythical 1v1 you can escape, but that hasn’t been mine or anyone I talk to experience in-game. ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/298 "2021-07-26T13:56:01Z")
There is counter play, but most is done before undocking as @Gerard_Amatin said in his post. So taking a lowsec example is not valid, since that space operates on different rules, where you cannot use these counter measures. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/299 "2021-07-26T13:56:54Z")
Your counter-play is prevention. “Industrial” ships in real life also only had prevention available to them as a means of survival. This is a natural expectation. They relied on speed, intelligence, maneuvering, and armed escorts to avoid or deter the enemy. Why don’t you have the expectation that you must do the same? Or do you want mining barges to have battleship-levels of tank and firepower? ---
**Author:** ![Ricky\_Tock](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ricky_tock/32/297351_2.png) [@Ricky\_Tock](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ricky_Tock)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/301 "2021-07-26T13:58:05Z")
Oops, I got ahead of myself! I certainly did extrapolate, but on my side, not about yours. I acccidentally spoke for all Rookies and I guess we are not all pro-gank. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > Over the years many players have left Eve due to ganking Many player accounts may have claimed they left due to ganking, but man, is that hard to prove or what? That’s the struggle: Is it _really_ rookies who want to nerf ganking? Is this a counterintel play to get people like me riled-up enough to join the ganking? All this debate realllly makes me wanna pwn someone unawares. The fruits seem endless. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/302 "2021-07-26T13:58:13Z")
I will make an exception and reply to you on this. I was in an alliance called Pirate Nation at the time, many of my alliance mates stated that as ganking was so cheap that they would now jump into Catalysts and get some juicy Hulk killmails. Because at the time the best tanked mining ship which was the Hulk could be blown up by one Catalyst in most systems. Most of the players prior to that did not find the loot drops paid for the Thorax. and fit Were you really around when all this went down? ---
**Author:** ![Olorion\_Endergard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/olorion_endergard/32/300165_2.png) [@Olorion\_Endergard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Olorion_Endergard)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/303 "2021-07-26T14:00:47Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Or do you want mining barges to have battleship-levels of tank and firepower? I didn’t state that I wanted any changes. And we all know mining ships will be nerfed in the upcoming balance pass despite increased resources (scarcity ending in Q4) and moon/gas compression coming. So there’s no point in begging for buffs anyways. The devs are already committed to what they have planned through the rest of this year. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/304 "2021-07-26T14:01:29Z")
When it really mattered CCP was totally unaware of how many players they lost to ganking. There is no direct data and as I said it took CCP two and a half years to work it out, but why would they make changes to give two very well tanked ships, got to be a reason there somewhere? Many people want to nerf ganking, the gankers want to buff ganking, there have been many buffs to ganking, some very deliberate. Go and gank if it pulls your chain. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/305 "2021-07-26T14:05:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ganking advocates like this, they want people who don’t think like them forced out of the game Why would they want them forced out of the game? Wouldn’t they prefer those people stayed and continued to offer themselves as targets instead? You’re not being rational and are showing a clear bias here because of the assumption that “PvPers” dislike “PvEers” on some kind of existential level when in fact that’s never been a consideration at all. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > I was in an alliance called Pirate Nation at the time, many of my alliance mates stated that as ganking was so cheap that they would now jump into Catalysts and get some juicy Hulk killmails. Because at the time the best tanked mining ship which was the Hulk could be blown up by one Catalyst in most systems. Most of the players prior to that did not find the loot drops paid for the Thorax. and fit Were you really around when all this went down? That period of time was extremely short-lived, as barges were re-balanced to their current EHP levels very quickly, and have existed in their current state of the majority of that existence. Destroyers got their RoF penalty removed at the beginning of 2012, and barges were boosted during that summer. Can’t really judge a game based on a very short period in its history. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/306 "2021-07-26T14:06:55Z")
Two and a half years is not short lived. @Lucas_Kell you remember such things, any idea on the timescale I might be over egging it at two and a half years but six months is definitely wrong. This is the change that gave the Skiff and Procurer decent buffer tanks. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/307 "2021-07-26T14:07:37Z")
How are you getting two and a half years? Both happened in 2012. I’m fine with being fact-checked, but you’re not going to win this one, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/308 "2021-07-26T14:10:58Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > any idea on the timescale I might be over egging it at two and a half years but six months is definitely wrong. Can we maybe make a collaborative effort to actually just find the patch notes, instead of relying on people’s biased memories? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/309 "2021-07-26T14:13:09Z")
I am certain it was longer than that. Because I was going on and on about it on the forums for several years. Actually @Daichi_Yamato is good at things like this ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-has-happened-to-this-game/321226/310 "2021-07-26T14:14:47Z")
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