# What if **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [July 29, 2021, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819 "2021-07-29T13:10:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2021, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/21 "2021-07-30T12:06:38Z")
> [@Induce\_Deadline](#): > > Did logic just fly out the window with you, PCU is the peak concurrent users. Whether logged in for 30 seconds or 23 hours. That number has dropped by 10k+, cloaky camping is NOTHING to do with that which should be completely obvious. Only the users that are online during the ‘peak concurrent user’ moment will be counted in that daily statistic. This includes all the characters that are online all day (such as cloaky campers) and will not include all the characters that happen to be offline at that moment, which is a significant part of all characters, as regular players aren’t online all day and most of them won’t count to those statistics because of that. On average, a character that is logged in all day (such as an afk cloaky camper) counts like 12 players who are only logged in 2 hours a day, as the chance a 2 hour per day player is logged in during the peak is 2/24 or 8.3%. Or when we consider that there are 50% more players during the peak than in other times of the day, we increase that chance by 50% for a 12.6% chance that that player is counted in the ‘daily peak’ statistics. The chance that an 24/7 afk cloaky is counted in the peak is 100%. In other words, 8 times more often than a player who plays 2 hours a day. Add that those AFK cloakers are most likely multiboxing and you’ll see that their stats have a significantly higher effect towards daily login numbers than those of regular players. ---
**Author:** ![Moriar\_theChosen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moriar_thechosen/32/368191_2.png) [@Moriar\_theChosen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moriar_theChosen)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2021, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/22 "2021-07-30T12:46:11Z")
Most North American players are not counted, unless we were cloaky campers… 👀 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2021, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/23 "2021-07-30T13:01:42Z")
pretty much unless your are retired like me for the last 7 years withing more to do than play games all day. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 2:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/24 "2021-07-31T02:41:40Z")
Yeah, gotta disagree with your synopses of how it works, mainly because all accounts are counted during the 24 hr period between DT’s and the time period with the largest amount is then classified as PCU. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Maxim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_maxim/32/283104_2.png) [@Mr\_Maxim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Maxim)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 3:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/25 "2021-07-31T03:25:29Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > mainly because all accounts are counted during the 24 hr period between DT’s and the time period with the largest amount is then classified as PCU. The PCU is the highest number of accounts logged in at the same time for that day, anyone who doesn’t play, or isn’t logged in, at the exact time that daily peak is reached isn’t counted. Since daily peaks generally happen around EU time zones that means anyone who is in the US and doesn’t play early won’t be counted, UNLESS they have some alt(s) logged in 24/7 for “various uses”. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 9:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/26 "2021-07-31T09:01:50Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Yeah, gotta disagree with your synopses of how it works, mainly because all accounts are counted during the 24 hr period between DT’s and the time period with the largest amount is then classified as PCU. All accounts are indeed counted during the 24hr period. But when people are looking at login numbers, they look at the _daily peak numbers_. Only the accounts that are online during that peak moment are counted in those statistics. All the people who aren’t playing at that moment but at other moments of the day aren’t counted in the daily peak. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/27 "2021-07-31T12:49:45Z")
> [@Mr\_Maxim](#): > > The PCU is the highest number of accounts logged in at the same time for that day, That’s close to what I said… Except it doesn’t happen at the same time each day. > [@Mr\_Maxim](#): > > anyone who doesn’t play, or isn’t logged in, at the exact time that daily peak is reached isn’t counted. And that’s an incorrect statement. > [@Mr\_Maxim](#): > > Since daily peaks generally happen around EU time zones that means anyone who is in the US and doesn’t play early won’t be counted, UNLESS they have some alt(s) logged in 24/7 for “various uses”. ‘Generally’ doesn’t equal ‘Always’. Everybody is counted during the 24 hr period. If not then there’s no way to know just exactly when that PCU happens. Anyway, when I log into the game I don’t look at the PCU, I look at the amount of UCO = Users Currently Online. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/28 "2021-07-31T13:30:03Z")
Usually when people not log into a game it’s because they are not having fun ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/29 "2021-07-31T14:05:31Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > That’s close to what I said… Except it doesn’t happen at the same time each day. It doesn’t happen at the same time, but it happens at a certain moment. Only the users logged in at that specific moment are counted, the ones that are online at other moments of the day but not at that moment aren’t counted. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > > [@Mr\_Maxim](#): > > > > anyone who doesn’t play, or isn’t logged in, at the exact time that daily peak is reached isn’t counted. > > And that’s an incorrect statement. He’s correct though, you’re thinking about something else. There are two things that are counted: 1. Users currently online. 2. The users online when (1) is at it’s peak. Anyone who isn’t logged in during the peak but is playing at another time of the day is indeed ‘counted’, but they’re only counted in number 1, but not counted in number 2. As people usually refer to the daily peak statistics, those users who aren’t online during the peak aren’t counted. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Maxim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_maxim/32/283104_2.png) [@Mr\_Maxim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Maxim)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/30 "2021-07-31T14:36:45Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Anyway, when I log into the game I don’t look at the PCU, I look at the amount of UCO = Users Currently Online And the highest number of UCO of that day IS the PCU. PCU stands for Peak Concurrent Users, not total. Meaning that if you weren’t online at the moment that peak happened you’re not counted. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/31 "2021-07-31T16:13:19Z")
You people keep dealing in absolutes saying the only people who are counted are those who are online when PCU happens… If nobody else is counted in the 24 hr time period then you wouldn’t know when the PCU happens. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/32 "2021-07-31T17:08:50Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > You people keep dealing in absolutes saying the only people who are counted are those who are online when PCU happens… > > If nobody else is counted in the 24 hr time period then you wouldn’t know when the PCU happens. Yes, you count all the people to know when PCU happens. And at the moment of PCU, you only count the players that are active at that moment and ignore all others. People that aren’t active when PCU happens **are not counted** in the PCU statistics. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Maxim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_maxim/32/283104_2.png) [@Mr\_Maxim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Maxim)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2021, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/33 "2021-07-31T17:32:49Z")
I don’t understand how this is difficult to comprehend. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 7:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/34 "2021-08-01T07:00:46Z")
> [@Mr\_Maxim](#): > > I don’t understand Exactly, now stop posting your BS replies to me… ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 7:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/35 "2021-08-01T07:26:13Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Yes, you count all the people to know when PCU happens. > > And at the moment of PCU, you only count the players that are active at that moment and ignore all others. > > People that aren’t active when PCU happens **are not counted** in the PCU statistics. Simple as that. Heh, just because the PCU amount is stated doesn’t mean nobody else is counted during the 24 hr period which is what you people were originally saying.. In my opinion the PCU amount is misleading since it’s only active for a brief period of time. Viewing the average amount of players online per 24 hr period displayed in Eve Offline is much more realistic view of player retention.. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/36 "2021-08-01T09:32:09Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Heh, just because the PCU amount is stated doesn’t mean nobody else is counted during the 24 hr period which is what you people were originally saying… I never originally said that people were not counted during the 24hr period. I said they were not counted towards the peak number. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > In my opinion the PCU amount is misleading since it’s only active for a brief period of time. Correct, the PCU is misleading. > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Viewing the average amount of players online per 24 hr period displayed in Eve Offline is much more realistic view of player retention… I agree that this is a better representation. But if we go back to my earlier point of AFK cloaked players showing up much more in the statistics than a regular player who’s logged in only a couple hours a day: if you average the numbers, people who are logged in 24h a day are counted 12 times more towards those statistics than a regular player that’s only logged in 2h a day. Regardless of whether you use the peak amount of players or the average amount of players, characters that are logged in all day will severely skew your data. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 10:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/37 "2021-08-01T10:20:15Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > if you average the numbers, people who are logged in 24h a day are counted 12 times more towards those statistics than a regular player that’s only logged in 2h a day. > > Regardless of whether you use the peak amount of players or the average amount of players, characters that are logged in all day will severely skew your data. I don’t see how since they’re only counted once during that specific time frame. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 10:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/38 "2021-08-01T10:29:32Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > I don’t see how since they’re only counted once during that specific time frame. That’s because of how the _average_ is calculated. Simple example: 2 players online total during the day. - One player is active for 24 hours, - One player is active for 2 hours. **What is the average amount of players online during the day?** Most of the time you see only 1 player online. 2 hours you see 2 players. The _average_ amount of players online during that day is (24+2)/24 = **1.083 players**. _(1.000 player of that value is contributed by the player that’s online 24h, 0.083 player is contributed by the player that only logged in for 2 hours during that day. In other words, the player that is online 12 times as long counts 12 times as much toward the average amount of players online)_ ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Maxim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_maxim/32/283104_2.png) [@Mr\_Maxim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Maxim)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2021, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/39 "2021-08-01T10:48:44Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Viewing the average amount of players online per 24 hr period displayed in Eve Offline is much more realistic view of player retention Yes it would be but that’s not what’s done and not what’s expected because all games like this work with PCU. Also, if that were the case then the number would be higher. at 6AM EVE time there’s some 15k people online and at 6PM EVE time there’s some 20K online (just some numbers, not saying those are exact). BIG chance a very large portion of those are not the same players so then the player count would be around 35K+, but it isn’t. So that’s not how it’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Fale\_Einn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fale_einn/32/477432_2.png) [@Fale\_Einn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fale_Einn)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2021, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819/40 "2021-08-03T01:29:03Z")
I didn’t log in the other day because I was working on something I really really didn’t want to be working on and doing it in rather intense heat. So… Yep, you nailed it. I was not having one speck of fun. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-if/321819.md?page=3)