# What is Causing EVE to Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2024, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580 "2024-11-29T07:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/308 "2024-12-18T17:57:38Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Players have solved the game Have you solved it? ---
**Author:** ![Trinity\_Xavier-Hope](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/trinity_xavier-hope/32/444639_2.png) [@Trinity\_Xavier-Hope](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Trinity_Xavier-Hope)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/309 "2024-12-18T18:05:48Z")
Eve isn’t dying Eve is already dead; basically a zombie surviving on multi-boxers and micro-transactions. ---
**Author:** ![Thork\_DeLaroche](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thork_delaroche/32/446812_2.png) [@Thork\_DeLaroche](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thork_DeLaroche)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/310 "2024-12-18T18:17:11Z")
> [@Trinity\_Xavier-Hope](#): > > Eve isn’t dying > > Eve is already dead It ain’t over 'til the fat lady sings and I ain’t heard no fat lady. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/311 "2024-12-18T18:24:17Z")
She Sang ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/7/e/37e0c81dee5f9be7848ecdda2f2520eba791a28f.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Thork\_DeLaroche](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thork_delaroche/32/446812_2.png) [@Thork\_DeLaroche](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thork_DeLaroche)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 6:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/312 "2024-12-18T18:26:01Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > She Sang I didn’t hear her. ---
**Author:** ![Akolja-Oenris\_Frael](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/akolja-oenris_frael/32/446553_2.png) [@Akolja-Oenris\_Frael](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Akolja-Oenris_Frael)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2024, 6:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/313 "2024-12-18T18:39:31Z")
> [@Fatt\_Albert](#): > > But what say you? I say EVE isn’t dying and you are NOT _the_ Fat Albert! You’re an impostor. ---
**Author:** ![Dirk\_Kajhone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dirk_kajhone/32/419135_2.png) [@Dirk\_Kajhone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dirk_Kajhone)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/314 "2024-12-19T03:25:50Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Personally I believe EVE is going to need more fundamental changes than CCP has been making. OK so I see this sort of comment a lot. “Something big needs to change”. But nobody says much about -what- needs to change. So what’s a ‘fundamental’ change to EVE - that actually causes more people to play, look like? ---
**Author:** ![Kaely\_Tanniss](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaely_tanniss/32/474209_2.png) [@Kaely\_Tanniss](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kaely_Tanniss)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/315 "2024-12-19T03:37:34Z")
Unfortunately, many have an opinion but do not offer a solution. An opinion without a solution is just that…an opinion. You know what they say about opinions… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Distaine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/distaine/32/502653_2.png) [@Distaine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Distaine)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/316 "2024-12-19T03:40:18Z")
@Aiko_Danuja , i gotta say that your attitude to have fun (and generate good content) no matter what is the reason i respect you. You deserve all the fkn simps and im never saying anything nice again… obviously this toon isnt my main and i give no chits about being liked but… Players like you keep this game going. ---
**Author:** ![Thork\_DeLaroche](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thork_delaroche/32/446812_2.png) [@Thork\_DeLaroche](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thork_DeLaroche)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 6:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/317 "2024-12-19T06:55:37Z")
> [@Dirk\_Kajhone](#): > > So what’s a ‘fundamental’ change to EVE - that actually causes more people to play, look like? There is no change that CCP could do ( short of changing the entire premise of the game ) that will steer EVE away from the collision course. EVE had it’s time. Now it’s time for other, more gentler, MMOs. And before you kill the messenger, I don’t like it either but I don’t shy away from hard truths. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/318 "2024-12-19T13:59:07Z")
> [@Dirk\_Kajhone](#): > > So what’s a ‘fundamental’ change to EVE - that actually causes more people to play, look like? Thork’s reply above has some truth… it’s too late for CCP to _reverse_ the direction of EVE back onto a growth path. However they can reclaim some previous players and recruit a few more newer ones to keep a more stable population. This breaks into 3 issues: - Attracting players who are more aware of what EVE actually is and using an NPE that better prepares them for the realities of EVE. (Rather than essentially steering all new players towards mining.) - Changing systems that drive players out of the game / or re-working efforts like Blackout/Scarcity that do the same, to no actual good effect for the game. - Implementing new systems that encourage more interest and interaction and tempt older and newer players both into various kinds of gameplay. The common element between these issues is that CCP needs to better understand player motivation and how EVE actually works and what it actually is (ie., it’s not primarily a PvP game). Again, we’re too far into a fairly negative thread to delve into ‘new ideas’. Start threads on any topic you want to discuss in more detail. Here are some thumbnail sketches of things that could be considered: - An NPE that actually talks about PvP and introduces it. - Changes to corp benefits in ways that make it meaningful for corps to actively recruit and help new players in non-exploitive manners. - Get rid of Concord, replace it with a player-driven system that makes ‘space cop’ or ‘bounty hunter’ a career as valid and profitable as ganking. - Alternatively, get rid of ganking and change the mining systems in High sec and low. - Add a contract system of Mercenary defend/protect/escort/kill/destruction contracts. - Add a system like Resource Wars should have been (search my older posts for Resource Wars). - Add a system of randomly appearing black holes into new, short-term regions holding various resources and loot, but with limited forces able to enter and fight for them (basically Extreme Resource Wars). - An extensive rework of resources and ship types available through High and Low sec (eg. no capitals in Lo .4, .3 and .2) to encourage more activity there. - Rework Wardecs so non-PvP corps have options other than either fight a guaranteed losing PvP battle or leave the game. Many of these would work best together: eg. Ganking changes, Cop system, Mercenary contracts and Wardec rewrites would all work better together than as standalone changes. One of the _most_ fundamental changes needs to be in design philosophy. CCP (and some players), have for way too long clung to the notion that EVE should be a game where **wolves** hunt **sheep**. And CCP and the gankers/wardeccers/campers etc. have been crying **for years** that they ‘need more sheep’ and also crocodile tears that 'oh darn we just want good fights, WHY won’t these carebears fight back?". Which is utter BS, since fights exist all over EVE in Low, FW, WH and Null space. Or even in High but against corps that actually _can_ and _will_ fight back. But the self-termed “elite PvPers” of high sec do everything possible to _avoid_ real fights and focus on weak targets to pad killboards and loot drops. CCP needs to realize that the incoming stream of clueless sheep they had over a decade ago has dried up, and all the “elite PvPers” are doing is cannibalizing their own playstyle. If CCP can’t shift to a focus where PvPers fight other PvPers for valid reasons and worthwhile rewards, then EVE’s decline will be even more rapid. ---
**Author:** ![Thork\_DeLaroche](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thork_delaroche/32/446812_2.png) [@Thork\_DeLaroche](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thork_DeLaroche)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/319 "2024-12-19T14:06:01Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > CCP needs to realize that the incoming stream of clueless sheep they had over a decade ago has dried up, and all the “elite PvPers” are doing is cannibalizing their own playstyle. If CCP can’t shift to a focus where PvPers fight other PvPers for valid reasons and worthwhile rewards, then EVE’s decline will be even more rapid. Good conclusion to a very good post. All on the mark. o7 ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/320 "2024-12-19T15:03:03Z")
> [@Distaine](#): > > Players like you keep this game going. Best way to show support is send ISK ---
**Author:** ![Thork\_DeLaroche](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thork_delaroche/32/446812_2.png) [@Thork\_DeLaroche](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thork_DeLaroche)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/321 "2024-12-19T15:08:29Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > Best way to show support is send ISK And no less than 1 billion isk at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/322 "2024-12-19T15:10:10Z")
> [@Thork\_DeLaroche](#): > > no less than 1 billion isk at a time The Frostpacker considers that greedy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Thork\_DeLaroche](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thork_delaroche/32/446812_2.png) [@Thork\_DeLaroche](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thork_DeLaroche)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 3:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/323 "2024-12-19T15:11:06Z")
> [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](#): > > The Frostpacker considers that greedy. I’m sure that with time he will come to appreciate that. ---
**Author:** ![Aallin\_Gicquet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aallin_gicquet/32/510703_2.png) [@Aallin\_Gicquet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aallin_Gicquet)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/324 "2024-12-19T17:13:08Z")
Which would beg the question. Why are you here? If it as you say. Then what possible motivation for staying? A game by its very nature is a time sink. Why are you wasting your time on a game. That you have stated is already dead and is a zombie? Make it make sense. ---
**Author:** ![Aallin\_Gicquet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aallin_gicquet/32/510703_2.png) [@Aallin\_Gicquet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aallin_Gicquet)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 5:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/325 "2024-12-19T17:24:47Z")
Good post, but the question here is. Can we get enough players on the same page to demand this and will CCP listen. So far it seems that they want to listen to only what they want to hear. Equinox expansion is a case in point where the dev’s were told and explained that it would be a dumpster fire. By both the CSM and players that previewed it. They’re response was to make some changes and then inflict what was essentially the same thing on the players. What amounted to very small changes anyways. Now the question is how do we, as players, get the attention of CCP to make the changes you have outlined. Personally, I am all for what you have outlined in your post. I think it would bring about a more dynamic game. The PVPer’s would be getting what they have really wanted all along. Everyone else would be in a better position to make the transition to full on PVP if they wanted to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Thork\_DeLaroche](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thork_delaroche/32/446812_2.png) [@Thork\_DeLaroche](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thork_DeLaroche)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 6:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/326 "2024-12-19T18:07:07Z")
> [@Aallin\_Gicquet](#): > > Then what possible motivation for staying? A game by its very nature is a time sink. Why are you wasting your time on a game. That you have stated is already dead and is a zombie? A just question, my liege. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Fuchs](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_fuchs/32/504955_2.png) [@James\_Fuchs](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Fuchs)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2024, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/327 "2024-12-19T18:17:00Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > Not if you’re a vampire > > ![rain 2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/2/4/1/24111c669194fe189242cf620eeb3bb385c95618.jpeg) Miss Keena, please forgive my rude interjection, but I must ask you one thing: are _you_ a vampire?? With concerned regards -James Fuchs [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=15) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=17)