# What is Causing EVE to Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2024, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580 "2024-11-29T07:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/555 "2024-12-28T16:39:30Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > The forum tends to divide between those who argue about ‘data’ and those who argue about ‘this is my actual direct experience of the game’. The difference is, game data, historical trends, and the analysis of game designers and experts from the past 30 years of MMOs have relevance to the _entire_ MMO market and player base. “This is my personal experience of the game” only has relevance to **one** person and their small circle. You don’t make design decisions based on someone who says “Hey, _ **I** _ like missioning, and I joined a mission-running corp, and ALL the guys I talk to (my corp, that is) ALSO like missioning. Therefore EVE is all about missioning and missions should be the game focus.” You also just seem to have a bad grasp of data usage in general. For instance you’ve repeated this “concurrency doesn’t mean active players” nonsense dozens of times. And the “it _could_ mean _twice_ as many players logging in for _half_ the time” mantra as if it establishes a fact. But it doesn’t. The account login graphs show exactly what they say they do - the number of accounts currently logged in, at 4 minute intervals, all day every day, for years. And they’ve been a consistent pattern ever since EVE began. So there’s absolutely zero reason to believe hundreds of thousands of players have suddenly shifted their pattern to logging in differently, en masse, without changing the overall hourly/daily pattern at all. At any rate, gankers tend to be a very small, very vocal, very self-centered portion of the player base, who **also** absolutely _require_ other players to be their victims in order to support their playstyle. “I need other players to show up and be defenseless for me so I can safely kill them and feel good about myself” is an inherently selfish and self-interested playstyle, and thus "my _personal_ experience as a ganker/wardeccer is that ganking/wardeccing is no problem at all for the game, all data that says otherwise is ‘misinterpreted’ " is a relatively meaningless argument. You and others dismiss the data and analysis because it doesn’t support your personal needs. That doesn’t mean the data is useless. It’s better to find ways to **use** the known data to suggest game changes that encourage a wider swath of playstyles, while also trying to maintain as much of EVE’s “harsh and cruel” environment as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 4:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/557 "2024-12-28T16:54:11Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > You also just seem to have a bad grasp of data usage in general. For instance you’ve repeated this “concurrency doesn’t mean active players” nonsense dozens of times. And the “it _could_ mean _twice_ as many players logging in for _half_ the time” mantra as if it establishes a fact. But it doesn’t. The account login graphs show exactly what they say they do - the number of accounts currently logged in, at 4 minute intervals, all day every day, for years. And they’ve been a consistent pattern ever since EVE began. I worked with data for 30 years and don’t know anything about it ? My point about twice as many players logged in for half the time happens to be _true_. Perhaps ‘true’ is a concept you’ve lost track of. The ‘4 minute interval’ makes zero difference…as someone who was logging in for 6 hours but is now only logging in for 3 is still only going to be detected half the time compared with before. At any one period of time during a day you are half as likely to detect them…whether the interval is 4 minutes or 4 hours. If everyone was logged in 24 hours a day and then everyone only logged in for 12 hours a day…do you _really_ think ‘the number of people currently logged in’ would remain the same ?? I don’t need lessons in statistics from someone who needs lessons in basic maths. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Drew](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_drew/32/395254_2.png) [@ISD\_Drew](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Drew)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/559 "2024-12-28T19:35:45Z")
removed an additional set of off topic posts. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/560 "2024-12-28T20:16:28Z")
It is like pruning a very fast growing plant. m ---
**Author:** ![goldea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/goldea/32/445665_2.png) [@goldea](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/goldea)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/561 "2024-12-28T21:02:37Z")
If they add a module that blows all your cargo up instantly (active counter to ganking) I’m coming back. Only speaking for myself, and a friend who left also because ganking didn’t feel fair. No complains, we just play other games and seeing adds for Eve all the time made me come back to check on the situation, which seem to be worse than ever. ---
**Author:** ![Tiffany\_Tatum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiffany_tatum/32/444722_2.png) [@Tiffany\_Tatum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiffany_Tatum)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/562 "2024-12-28T21:29:38Z")
> [@goldea](#): > > If they add a module that blows all your cargo up instantly (active counter to ganking) I’m coming back I have to say that I was very disappointed not to find a self-destruct button in my ship. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/563 "2024-12-28T21:43:17Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > It is like pruning a very fast growing plant. CCP don’t like growth and spontaneity ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/565 "2024-12-28T22:57:01Z")
/me chuckles I have mentioned to CCP that a module called ‘Freight Uncapturable’ would be a neat addition. Gankers? hit the F U button. m ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 10:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/566 "2024-12-28T22:58:21Z")
I see your time on the CSM was well spent. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/567 "2024-12-28T23:31:00Z")
> [@goldea](#): > > If they add a module that blows all your cargo up instantly (active counter to ganking) I’m coming back. > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > I have mentioned to CCP that a module called ‘Freight Uncapturable’ would be a neat addition. One notion that I didn’t include in the list of “significant changes” ideas (posted earlier in the thread), is that of consumable “add-on devices” for ships. Ships could have 1-3 slots for one-time-use devices, with categories of Offensive, Defensive, or Utility. Generally short-term or limited area affects, device consumed on use. Something like a small attack frigate might get just a single Offense device, a Logistics Cruiser might get 2 Defensive slots, an Exploration ship like an Astero might get a Universal slot (fits any) and a Utility slot. Larger ships would have all 3 slots with the mix varying by ship purpose. Offense slots could have effects like rapid fire, bonus tracking, range bonus or lock time. Defense could be resists, warp core strength, capacitor refill, target lock break, etc. Utility could be for speed increases, scan strength, ECM strength, remote boosts etc. These would all be somewhat expensive relative to their effects (more powerful = more ISK), so they’re not just burned off casually. They could shake up the overly predictable combat meta quite a bit and allow for some new strategies. A ‘rapid self-destruct’ Utility module would fit right in there, I’d say. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2024, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/568 "2024-12-28T23:48:31Z")
> [@Tiffany\_Tatum](#): > > I have to say that I was very disappointed not to find a self-destruct button in my ship. Just go suspect and I’ll self destruct it for you. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2024, 12:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/569 "2024-12-29T00:06:25Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > Gankers? hit the F U button. Thats 2 buttons numb nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Thork\_DeLaroche](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/thork_delaroche/32/446812_2.png) [@Thork\_DeLaroche](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Thork_DeLaroche)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2024, 12:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/570 "2024-12-29T00:21:56Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > Just go suspect and I’ll self destruct it for you That’s not the way it works. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2024, 12:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/571 "2024-12-29T00:22:34Z")
I still like blaming the whales. The game drew in a lot of high $$$ players and CCP likes the guaranteed income. Meh… ---
**Author:** ![Tiffany\_Tatum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiffany_tatum/32/444722_2.png) [@Tiffany\_Tatum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiffany_Tatum)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2024, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/572 "2024-12-29T00:31:22Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > I’ll self destruct it for you You’re that much hard up for a kill? I thought there were thousands of players in the game. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2024, 12:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/573 "2024-12-29T00:47:23Z")
> [@Tiffany\_Tatum](#): > > I thought there were thousands of players in the game. There _were_. ---
**Author:** ![Tiffany\_Tatum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiffany_tatum/32/444722_2.png) [@Tiffany\_Tatum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiffany_Tatum)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2024, 12:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/574 "2024-12-29T00:53:18Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > There _were_. I only have a Catalyst that an agent gave me. Not much of a kill. You can kill my ship if you’re _that_ desperate @Gloria_Exercitus ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2024, 12:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/575 "2024-12-29T00:56:36Z")
I’ll do it for you, but first , be a good girl and fill the cargo hold with PLEX. ---
**Author:** ![Tiffany\_Tatum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiffany_tatum/32/444722_2.png) [@Tiffany\_Tatum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiffany_Tatum)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2024, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/576 "2024-12-29T01:08:53Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > fill the cargo hold with PLEX. Sure. How much PLEX do you want? ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2024, 1:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/577 "2024-12-29T01:17:56Z")
> [@Tiffany\_Tatum](#): > > You can kill my ship if you’re _that_ desperate I thought you were desperate to blow it up. I’m simply finding an amicable solution for both of us. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=20) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=22)