# What is Causing EVE to Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2024, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580 "2024-11-29T07:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2025, 7:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/619 "2025-01-03T19:17:30Z")
Oh, hi Mr Troll. Still trying to be relevant on the forums ? What ‘meltdown’ ? I simply posted a thread asking a question. But it is typical of you to twist and distort everything. Have you discovered the ‘Undock’ button yet ? Or gonna remain yet another of those forum warriors who snipes from the sidelines yet has zero evidence of ever even undocking ? I’d certainly have a meltdown if you left the forums…as I need at least something to laugh at each day. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2025, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/620 "2025-01-03T19:23:00Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > as I need at least something to laugh at each day. Plenty of angry miners here for our entertainment ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2025, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/621 "2025-01-03T19:23:18Z")
I have never cried since joining the forum in 2009. You do it on the regular over three characters. My favorite was you [demanding CCP make every skin available at the price you want, when you want](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/time-to-sort-out-ship-skins/422815). Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2025, 7:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/622 "2025-01-03T19:26:59Z")
> [@Mr\_Epeen](#): > > I have never cried since joining the forum in 2009. Au contraire. You cry every time I post…hence your need to troll all the time. > **[Pavlov’s Dogs Experiment & Pavlovian Conditioning Response](https://www.simplypsychology.org/pavlov.html)** > > Pavlov predicted the dogs would salivate in response to the food in front of them, but he noticed that his dogs would begin to salivate whenever they heard the footsteps of his assistant, who was bringing them the food. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/623 "2025-01-03T19:34:31Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/3/a/33abc21a88c90d75c5a9e7414dbbbc579daf9261.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Tiffany\_Tatum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiffany_tatum/32/444722_2.png) [@Tiffany\_Tatum](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiffany_Tatum)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2025, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/624 "2025-01-03T23:33:48Z")
Hi, @Fatt_Albert I don’t know anything about video games. EvE is my first MMO otherwise I played games like Candy Crush on my phone so my answer will not be useful for the topic except that maybe it will bring a new perspective. > [@Fatt\_Albert](#): > > Carebears? Botter? RMTers? I don’t know what those are although they may not even be involved. > [@Fatt\_Albert](#): > > And what can be done to slow down the rotting process? Is EvE really rotting though? 🤔 > [@Fatt\_Albert](#): > > But what say you? I think the game isn’t dying at all. I think it is right where the developers want it to be. It looks like there is a lot of changes being made so I think that CCP has forseen the loss of players and are betting on more players to come in when all the changes are done being made in a few years. That is my opinion and more than likely it is wrong but I will stick to my guns on that. 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2025, 11:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/625 "2025-01-03T23:45:52Z")
> [@Tiffany\_Tatum](#): > > I don’t know anything about video games. Like you and all your other characters, Fatt Albert was a temp. It’s long gone now. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 12:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/626 "2025-01-04T00:20:59Z")
> [@Tiffany\_Tatum](#): > > I don’t know anything about video games ![IMG_7238](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/8/4/e/84e5c37c3a00f291a79d3205ec7d2366cc632bac.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Aallin\_Gicquet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aallin_gicquet/32/510703_2.png) [@Aallin\_Gicquet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aallin_Gicquet)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 2:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/627 "2025-01-04T02:00:46Z")
When you undock you are agreeing to PVP. As you stated you lost everything. That is just an opportunity to build better. As for being a new father. Welcome to the club. Your life has changed and will change yet again. When i was raising my son. I did not have time for games myself. Outside of occasionally playing a computer game. I was working and making weekends about him and my wife. Games are time sinks as it is. There are casual games out there. Namely card games and that sort of wild excitement. Unless you want to carve out the time for any MMO. You are going to run into this problem of not getting anywhere as fast as other people. For me gaming is how i choose to spend my time as a retiree. Though to be honest. Even then I still have to carve out time. Between taking care of my wife and doctor appointments. Some days can be hectic… LOL Maybe for now this goes on the backburner as you raise help raise you child(ren). RL comes before any game. Games are time sinks. It depends on how you want to spend your time. o7 ---
**Author:** ![Ronnie\_Rose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ronnie_rose/32/446230_2.png) [@Ronnie\_Rose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ronnie_Rose)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 3:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/628 "2025-01-04T03:48:29Z")
This game has been dying for 12 years now. But joking aside CCP did face an existential crisis for real when they had to accept Pearl Abyss [PA] aid for financial help. Ironically, the sandbox MMO that PA has for their flagship game, Black Desert Online, has also faced large fluctuations in player population and continues having challenges with new players and retention. They’ve been moving away from the sandbox model along with some unpopular changes with the hardcore player base and it has cost them. 2024 third quarter reporting, I heard went from $5M USD in 2023 to -$5M USD. But I still applaud PA for their bold move to retain players and attract new players. For one, when the old staunch player base started flaming PA on social media (Youtube) for those changes, PA was slow to respond, but it got to the point that that base threatened and did leave the game which cost PA. PA responded by digging their heals in and did not cave to their demands. Overall I think PA will recover but they didn’t let a community hold them hostage; its like burning away dead wood. But I doubt CCP will follow suit, because they’ve been skirting the threshold for years now with high and low swings in their player base. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 4:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/629 "2025-01-04T04:13:22Z")
I suspect PA bought CCP for its China access. Or they have a plan to start up character based gameplay again. But do it properly this time. Because the one thing they didn’t do was spend $400,000,000 on a niche game that had long ago run out of steam and expect to make back their investment any time this century. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Ronnie\_Rose](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ronnie_rose/32/446230_2.png) [@Ronnie\_Rose](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ronnie_Rose)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 4:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/630 "2025-01-04T04:24:45Z")
I thought CCP left China’s market (ironically I am not referencing the Communist Chinese Party 😆)? But I doubt PA “bought” CCP for China’s access. For one BDO has finally released in China and PA had to make huge concessions to open the game in China, changes that are reverberating into other continents, like NA and EU. For one China does not allow forced PvP in games there, which is a change that’s caused PA to consider moving away from the sandbox MMO model else where. I suspect that is why CCP left China’s market in the first place; they didn’t want to deal with the regulator’s demands to change the game. Secondly, isn’t CCP introducing EVE Vanguard, an FPS, which might be character based? ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Epeen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mr_epeen/32/373308_2.png) [@Mr\_Epeen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mr_Epeen)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 4:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/631 "2025-01-04T04:33:34Z")
> [@Ronnie\_Rose](#): > > Secondly, isn’t CCP introducing EVE Vanguard, an FPS, which might be character based? Sure, but it’s not WIS. Which done right would rejuvenate EVE and open the game to a whole world of new subscribers. Along with massive monetization opportunities. Also, PA is one of the best at character design for the demographic willing to spend heavily on things like fashion, skins, emotes, dance moves, etc. Mr Epeen 🕶 ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 7:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/632 "2025-01-04T07:53:23Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > … Why? Seems like the first true statement from that poster. 🤔 Remember though that some people do things without learning anything in the process, thus even if such people play play video games (or do other things) doesn’t mean they actually know anything about them, no matter since how long they play (or do) them. 😉 > [@Aallin\_Gicquet](#): > > When you ~~undock~~ install the game you are agreeing to PVP. FTFY 😊 ---
**Author:** ![Jabali\_Javee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jabali_javee/32/416429_2.png) [@Jabali\_Javee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jabali_Javee)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2025, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/633 "2025-01-04T20:42:40Z")
1. age 2. new player joins and has no clue what to do, then they can’t do anything appealing to them and forget out logging again ---
**Author:** ![Lara\_Agnon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lara_agnon/32/377122_2.png) [@Lara\_Agnon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lara_Agnon)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2025, 9:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/634 "2025-01-05T09:51:52Z")
> [@Ronnie\_Rose](#): > > They’ve been moving away from the sandbox model Well, the same happens here, however, in smaller steps trying to keep the existing player base. Eve already died for many players because they cannot play ‘their’ game any more and eve turns into theme park. Eve dies on a daily basis for new players as they expect a themepark mmo and soon find out it isn’t there yet. > [@Jabali\_Javee](#): > > age And this! lol, I am at the end of my lifespan myself As I am active in Rookie Help channel I notice that many players are not willing to adapt to a different game style when they try out Eve, they want Eve to be like every other game they played. If ccp decides to cater for these people I am pretty sure Eve will die more quickly as the same people who demand eve to be like any other mmo will also jump to any other game without spilling a tear. On a side note: > [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > Plus you don’t need an ad blocker…Youtube has its own function where you can state you want to see less of a certain type of advert, which I do with… Youtube will love you for this. Knowing what you do not want to see makes your profile they are selling much more valuable ---
**Author:** ![Argel\_OTF2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/argel_otf2/32/388676_2.png) [@Argel\_OTF2](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Argel_OTF2)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/635 "2025-01-08T13:50:28Z")
This is weird. The post detailed what I lost. It wasn’t the ISK value, it was the time, the station, the attachment to the Wormhole, the knowledge of it. The ability to enjoy a system that I considered ‘home’, with a degree of risk that I was comfortable with, and could do so passively in the time I had. And yes, I absolutely engaged in PVP, and I think when people caught me and killed me in WH space I had no problem with that. WH space is lawless, for sure, and you are in danger when you undock, which is why the rewards were higher. Like I said, there’s an irony here that what happened to me was just unfortunate timing. I had loaded that POS with defenses that would have made it very difficult for them to take it down, and it was a shame I never got an opportunity to defend it. I would perhaps argue that I would like to see some kind of external tool to ensure such ‘combat’ isn’t decided by unfortunate timing though. But what I was making a broader point about, is that my own circumstances are just one example of how EVE works against players who aren’t wholly bought into it. The mentality that simply undocking (of course, I did no such thing in my case) means you’re fair game, and that it’s not the player’s choice to engage or not engage, means EVE loses players. People turn up and in their limited time, may want to engage or not. The fact that other players are able to dictate how they play the game makes it very difficult to call it a ‘sandbox’ game, rather it’s a game in which the actions of others can inhibit you from getting whatever satisfaction or experience you wanted. I know some of you like to debate that until the ends of the earth and delude yourselves that those players were somehow fundamentally flawed and unworthy of being catered to, but it’s one of the primary reasons EVE loses players. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 3:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/636 "2025-01-08T15:42:26Z")
> [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > The mentality that simply undocking (of course, I did no such thing in my case) means you’re fair game, and that it’s not the player’s choice to engage or not engage Are you one of those people who hits the tilda key and enters ‘god mode’ for every game ? I mean, I’d love to have the ‘choice’ to charge up the Normandy beach and not have a single German pill box fire at me in Medal Of Honour. I’d love to play Doom 3 and have the ‘choice’ of not having any creepy things jump out. Or play chess and have the ‘choice’ of whether the opponent can take my pieces. If people who complain that there’s ‘non consensual’ PvP in a PvP game feel like ‘leaving’…its probably for the best. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/637 "2025-01-08T16:15:09Z")
I do find it odd that gankers do not need consent in high sec yet he thinks they should need his consent in a wormhole? ---
**Author:** ![Aallin\_Gicquet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aallin_gicquet/32/510703_2.png) [@Aallin\_Gicquet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aallin_Gicquet)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/638 "2025-01-08T16:50:04Z")
> [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](#): > > FTFY When you undock.. Cause you can sit in an NPC station and never undock. Do not put words in my mouth. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=23) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=25)