# What is Causing EVE to Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2024, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580 "2024-11-29T07:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2025, 5:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/639 "2025-01-08T17:02:39Z")
Too late and there’s nothing you can do about it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/640 "2025-01-09T00:45:49Z")
> [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > It’s gankers, but they don’t want to hear it. > > EVE is a perfect passive game that people should be able to dip into and find adventure and battle. The fact there is almost no safety in EVE makes it too time consuming to play for those of us with jobs and lives. I lost everything in EVE because my son was born and I didn’t see that my POS in a WH was under attack over that 3 day span, after literally nothing for years, and actively hoping somebody would at least try Try running various types of missions in High Sec. If you see scan probes on the Overview, be certain the gankers are in a station close-by waiting for the probe ship to track your location down. Set all of the known ganker corps, such as Safety, which is ran by Akio Danuj to -10 status. When the local channel fills up with red -10’s warp and dock at a station and wait until they leave. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 5:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/641 "2025-01-09T05:37:35Z")
> [@DrysonBennington](#): > > Set all of the known ganker corps, such as Safety, which is ran by Akio Danuj to -10 status. No, please, don’t do it. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chad_frostpacker/32/504356_2.png) [@Chad\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chad_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 5:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/642 "2025-01-09T05:52:23Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > Freight Uncapturable’ Very cool stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Argel\_OTF2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/argel_otf2/32/388676_2.png) [@Argel\_OTF2](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Argel_OTF2)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 10:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/643 "2025-01-09T10:39:29Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > Are you one of those people who hits the tilda key and enters ‘god mode’ for every game ? > > I mean, I’d love to have the ‘choice’ to charge up the Normandy beach and not have a single German pill box fire at me in Medal Of Honour. I’d love to play Doom 3 and have the ‘choice’ of not having any creepy things jump out. Or play chess and have the ‘choice’ of whether the opponent can take my pieces. > > If people who complain that there’s ‘non consensual’ PvP in a PvP game feel like ‘leaving’…its probably for the best. Like I said, the last part is the attitude people take. You can have the dying game, you win! But if someones asks _why_ it’s dying, all I see is a bunch of peope desperate to ignore the people who have left, that seems… well, counter-intuitive. As for your strawman, I don’t want ‘god mode’, I want to engage in combat when I am ready for it, or actively engaging in an activity that should warrant it. Merely existing in space is the current bar, whether in hi/lo-null/wh space, and with few rewarding activities that won’t prompt some kind of danger. Sure, some people think that’s how it should be, but that lack of ability to just exist causes people to lose things, log off, and not log back on. > [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > I do find it odd that gankers do not need consent in high sec yet he thinks they should need his consent in a wormhole? I don’t think this at all. Like I said, the irony of my position is that in a WH you take the rough with the smooth. I had no problem with people attacking my POS. All I said was it would be good if there was some kind of alert to avoid a scenario where not logging in for 5 days loses you everything without ever knowing. I then used the fact I lost a lot of what I’d built to illustrate that when that happens - particularly at lower levels when the game can feel weighted against you, arcane, and intimidating - you run the risk of the person saying ‘nah, I can’t be bothered’. And ultimately the game is poorer for not having enough casual players. Anyway, as with the first response, as always, it seems like a lot of strawman arguments and ignoring the general thrust of my point, which is that people don’t all log into EVE to play under constant threat of death. People log in to do many things that ultimately are good for the game by virtue of the activity and retention of players. They leave because they are told that they must accept the risk of death every time they undock, by players with more resources, skill, and knowledge than them. > [@DrysonBennington](#): > > Try running various types of missions in High Sec. If you see scan probes on the Overview, be certain the gankers are in a station close-by waiting for the probe ship to track your location down. > > Set all of the known ganker corps, such as Safety, which is ran by Akio Danuj to -10 status. When the local channel fills up with red -10’s warp and dock at a station and wait until they leave. Yeah, I lived in a WH for years, I know the drill. But tell this to a first time player running hisec missions trying to feel like they’re making progress, being ganked by a bunch of guys who have already mastered the game, destroying all of the new player’s progress for no real advantage except for something to do. Sure it’s good practice, but this should really only apply in low sec and below. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/644 "2025-01-09T11:31:59Z")
> [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > first time player running hisec missions You not gonna get your mission boat ganked in high sec unless it is pimped out or a stupidly expensive ship. The **first time player** was using mummys credit card …deserves what they get. Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose…deserves what they get. > [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > not logging in for 5 days loses you everything This is entirely your fault as you knew it could be attacked at any time. It was your responsibility to log in every day to check on it. You then quit and blame CCP for your failure. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/645 "2025-01-09T11:53:31Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > Funny none of you have mentioned ‘old age’ both for the game and the player base. By definition _every_ game has an ‘ageing player base’ as people get older every day. But it is wrong to assume that it is like a conveyor belt with young people joining at one end and becoming senile at the other end. It tends to be assumed that the older people in Eve are those who have simply been in the game a long time and were much younger when they started Eve. But I have found from discussions in corp chat, and from my own experience, that in many cases people start Eve when they are _already_ old. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/646 "2025-01-09T11:56:37Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > people start Eve when they are _already_ old Not **Zaera** , she is 16 and has been for the last 300 years. ![rude tongue](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/a/d/6ad5ed9d76df5d9d52f88269a896a724a7d36778.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/647 "2025-01-09T11:58:47Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > she is 16 and has been for the last 300 years ![61S-Im7ILBL](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/8/1/3/81325cf0dc3eb0ca0017ed81d812455196584dcb.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 12:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/648 "2025-01-09T12:03:54Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > You not gonna get your mission boat ganked in high sec unless it is pimped out or a stupidly expensive ship. Which is why my 4b Vindicator (fit and hull) sits on a shelf! ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 12:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/649 "2025-01-09T12:09:45Z")
In the book, she was 5 years old. In the movie, played by Kirsten Dunst as pictured above, she was 10 years old (Actress was 11). In the series, she’s 14 years old. I’m sure she’ll be 25 if they decide to redo it again. They seem to keep wanting to age her. disclaimer- I am not correcting you- just adding in some useless information 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/650 "2025-01-09T12:12:30Z")
Supposedly it is a great mining ship - chuck on some mining lasers and give it a bash. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/9/1/a91949f4add018c55bc841e2b8ced23ec3799381.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/651 "2025-01-09T12:13:14Z")
I heard that was a thing in the past. I’m sorry I missed it. That would have been an extremely funny sight! ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/652 "2025-01-09T12:33:47Z")
> [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > you run the risk of the person saying ‘nah, I can’t be bothered’. I’ve had _many_ ‘nah…I can’t be bothered’ instances in Eve…and come _close_ to leaving. I just don’t think any instance could happen that would make it permanent. The lure of progressing so far always outweighs the setbacks. > [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > I want to engage in combat when I am ready for it, or actively engaging in an activity that should warrant it. Merely existing in space is the current bar, whether in hi/lo-null/wh space, and with few rewarding activities that won’t prompt some kind of danger. Sure, some people think that’s how it should be, That is how it should be, and has always been. I wouldn’t want to play Eve if it was not like that. The danger everywhere is the very thing that makes Eve exciting. Far more people ( including myself ) would leave Eve if CCP introduced ‘safe’ areas or ’ consensual PvP’ than leave due to the danger everywhere. > [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > But tell this to a first time player running hisec missions trying to feel like they’re making progress, being ganked by a bunch of guys who have already mastered the game, destroying all of the new player’s progress for no real advantage except for something to do. Sure it’s good practice, but this should really only apply in low sec and below. I was ganked in highsec just a few weeks after starting Eve. And gate camped by the same corp a week later. Three years later I was in a fleet and blapped the very person ( still in the same corp ) who had ganked me way back. Revenge…the best motivator of all. ---
**Author:** ![Argel\_OTF2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/argel_otf2/32/388676_2.png) [@Argel\_OTF2](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Argel_OTF2)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/653 "2025-01-09T12:54:19Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > This is entirely your fault as you knew it could be attacked at any time. It was your responsibility to log in every day to check on it. You then quit and blame CCP for your failure. Did you miss the part where my first child was born the day of the first attack? I think I had maybe failed to login once for that long in 2 years prior. > [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > You not gonna get your mission boat ganked in high sec unless it is pimped out or a stupidly expensive ship. > > The **first time player** was using mummys credit card …deserves what they get. > > Don’t fly what you can’t afford to lose…deserves what they get. Again, the answer to this whole question effectively comes down to listening to people who do not have any interest in the wider game’s success, and resent new players being allowed the freedom and ability to develop their skills and knowledge to match that of the veteran playerbase. ---
**Author:** ![Tarax](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tarax/32/420205_2.png) [@Tarax](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tarax)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/654 "2025-01-09T13:07:34Z")
Eve is dying because of the repeated benefits given to large groups while doing little or nothing to support solo or small group play. This suppresses the lower end of the spectrum and you end up with an age-heavy large alliance trending distribution of players that do little to increase eve subscriptions. CCP does everything it can to impart benefits to large alliances holding sov space; the very group that needs them the least. Eve could have a re-awakening if they would follow a policy that provides REAL and substantial benefits to the individual, or very small group. This is the philosophy difference that has slowly brought eve to it’s lowest. Solutions are so easy. Here are just a few. . Allow corporations to have sov, and all the benefits and capabilities of sov space. . Allow super capitals to dock at NPC stations and increase NPC space as a whole. . Sov costs should rise massively and geometrically with the number of systems you have sov in. ---
**Author:** ![Argel\_OTF2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/argel_otf2/32/388676_2.png) [@Argel\_OTF2](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Argel_OTF2)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/655 "2025-01-09T13:09:34Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > I’ve had _many_ ‘nah…I can’t be bothered’ instances in Eve…and come _close_ to leaving. I just don’t think any instance could happen that would make it permanent. The lure of progressing so far always outweighs the setbacks. > [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > Far more people ( including myself ) would leave Eve if CCP introduced ‘safe’ areas or ’ consensual PvP’ than leave due to the danger everywhere. I find these two quotes interesting as they’re quite contradictory. The obvious conclusion to draw is that you likely would not leave, and that if CCP did make things easier for players to exist and play in a way that suited them with no risk until they consented to it, you would adapt. > [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > I was ganked in highsec just a few weeks after starting Eve. And gate camped by the same corp a week later. Three years later I was in a fleet and blapped the very person ( still in the same corp ) who had ganked me way back. Revenge…the best motivator of all. That’s good. I can’t help but feel though, that your _3 year_ wait time for revenge may once again be expecting a little much of the average new player… I mean there’s twitch gaming and then there’s practically comatose. My guy probably saw as many presidents as had interactions with you. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/656 "2025-01-09T13:39:51Z")
> [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > my first child was born the day of the first attack This is not CCP’s fault , this is covered under Murphy’s law 1.3.3.3.(b) ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/657 "2025-01-09T14:08:35Z")
> [@Tarax](#): > > CCP does everything it can to impart benefits to large alliances holding sov space; the very group that needs them the least. What benefits exactly? Specifically? I’ve heard people say this a lot, but I’ve never heard what those benefits are. ---
**Author:** ![Argel\_OTF2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/argel_otf2/32/388676_2.png) [@Argel\_OTF2](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Argel_OTF2)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2025, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/658 "2025-01-09T14:37:15Z")
Agreed. But your statement was that it was my fault, which is equally untrue (albeit with some culpability around 9 months prior…). Anyway, the thing you are seemingly not grasping is that it was an illustration of how fragile anything built in this game is, and why ultimately even after many years, players choose to walk away rather than build up again. If EVE wants to thrive, it has to find a place in peoples’ lives, not the other way around. The fact I was unable to even set up a reliable alert system (though I did try) to ping me if an attack should happen, meant I could not even just plan ahead. The onus cannot permanently be on the player to accommodate losses via bad luck, griefing, a steep learning curve, or an unbalanced fight . Or rather, it _can_, but the game will wither away as it has done, because there is little incentive for those players who want to simply exist, to continue pro-actively investing their ever-more valuable time into a game that doesn’t try to fit around their lives. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=24) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=26)