# What is Causing EVE to Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2024, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580 "2024-11-29T07:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 6:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/800 "2025-01-16T06:58:08Z")
> [@Chad\_Frostpacker](#): > > knowing that there are gankers in the system [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/e/4/9e41335d4318562d12db95ab3c7880170f423f92.jpeg "Jaws theme!!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvCI-gNK_y4) ---
**Author:** ![Argel\_OTF2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/argel_otf2/32/388676_2.png) [@Argel\_OTF2](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Argel_OTF2)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/801 "2025-01-16T12:59:36Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > So the true irony becomes that the very people who make out they care so much about Eve become the people responsible for its demise. It is called ‘poisoning the well’. Can you prove this? Where is your evidence that people read the forums and decide to quit? ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 1:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/802 "2025-01-16T13:12:32Z")
> [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > Can you prove this? ![titanic](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/f/4/3f4f1f5ed6bf296dfc477a9d1c166e3d546eebbe.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/803 "2025-01-16T13:14:14Z")
> [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > Can you prove this They come on to the forums, rant and quit as don’t like the replies so yes, they quit after reading the forums. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/804 "2025-01-16T13:30:17Z")
> [@Argel\_OTF2](#): > > Can you prove this? Where is your evidence that people read the forums and decide to quit? There’s no evidence, it’s called “repeating the same stupid thing over and over again” in the hopes that somebody will believe it. Also, Gloria never supports their statements, they just deny the reality of any data they disagree with. CCP and other devs have _literally proven_ that one huge factor that drives people out of MMOs featuring full PvP is being victimized by player-killers, PKers, griefers, whatever you want to call them. See this post: > [@Are Wardecs always going to be broken? Is a fix even possible?](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/are-wardecs-always-going-to-be-broken-is-a-fix-even-possible/473516/66): > > Before thinking about how much/what kind of a change to Wardecs might be needed, I checked some numbers to see how big of problem it might be. That gives an idea whether just some tweaks and adjustments are needed, or a drastic re-write. This will be long, with supporting facts, so here’s the TL;DR for you: TL;DR: Yes, EVE wardecs are deeply harmful to the game, benefit very few players to the detriment of very many, and contribute relatively little useful or interesting content to the game. Th… While not the _only_ factor in causing fewer players to remain in EVE, **wardecs and ganking** certainly result in thousands and more likely tens of thousands of players leaving EVE every year. Gloria does both. Hence why waving their arms so frantically saying “No no the problem is people who _talk about_ ganking, not the actual gankers!”. Gloria is one of a small percentage of EVE players who literally squat in high sec, the starter point of the game, p1ssing in the well… and then accuse anyone who points that out as “killing EVE”. Understand, I don’t advocate the complete removal of ganking or of wardecs. EVE is intended to be harsh. But there’s harsh and then there’s just plain stupid. So far CCP is being stupid, and EVE is paying the price. And as the post I linked shows, they even _know_ they’re paying the price and are asking players/the CSM for help in resolving it. ---
**Author:** ![goldea](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/goldea/32/445665_2.png) [@goldea](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/goldea)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/805 "2025-01-16T14:14:03Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > like to go water skiing without skis, or a cable, or a boat. Think I’ll be OK I did do those things, I just say they do not work. Reading comprehension problem? ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/806 "2025-01-16T14:15:16Z")
So you don’t think people constantly whining ‘Eve is dying’ on the forums has ANY effect on the potential noobs you pretend to care oh so much about ? You don’t think ANY people EVER read those posts and think ’ Heck…why would I want to join a dying game ?’ All your hypocritical stance against ganking…and there’s you lot busy ganking people’s expectations before they ever get the chance to log in for the first time. Utter hypocrites…the lot of you. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/807 "2025-01-16T14:16:01Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > So far CCP is being stupid Indeed, bring back the old war dec system. > [@goldea](#): > > I did do those things That was pretty dumb don’t you think? Yet you failed. ---
**Author:** ![Aallin\_Gicquet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aallin_gicquet/32/510703_2.png) [@Aallin\_Gicquet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aallin_Gicquet)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/808 "2025-01-16T14:22:24Z")
All I know is that on these forums. Is that gankers cry about the dearth of targets… shrugs I guess people need to complain about something. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/809 "2025-01-16T14:31:17Z")
> [@Aallin\_Gicquet](#): > > All I know is that on these forums. Is that gankers cry about the dearth of targets… shrugs No, if for example you look at the killboard for Safety you will see there were more kills last year than in the previous three. Actual _facts_ anyone can check. So much for ganking killing the game. There’s no lack of targets. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/810 "2025-01-16T14:33:50Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > “No no the problem is people who _talk about_ ganking, not the actual gankers!”. What about people like me, who joined because of the possibility of being ganked? Playing a game where there is no safe place, and dangers are lurking in the shadows? I know I’m not alone in this. Seems ironic that the study only focused on one aspect, but failed to consider the opposite. That dangers of being ganked can, and does draw in potential players looking for the thrill of danger. I mean, it’s along the same vein of horror games. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/811 "2025-01-16T14:40:09Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Gloria is one of a small percentage of EVE players who literally squat in high sec, the starter point of the game, p1ssing in the well… OMG…I do PvP in a PvP game ! Shocking ! At least I have undocked since 2017…eh. ---
**Author:** ![Aallin\_Gicquet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aallin_gicquet/32/510703_2.png) [@Aallin\_Gicquet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aallin_Gicquet)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/812 "2025-01-16T14:45:19Z")
Yes. dscan is indeed your friend and so is paying attention to your overview. I am amazed at times that for some people keep expecting this game to be a vanilla MMO. Pissed when it shown that in EVE you need to pay attention to everything going on around you. That the tools provided to a pilot are not there for window dressing. But need to be utilized. EVE is unapologetically a brutal game. Show me a career path that does not include some risk at some point and I will show you a career path that does not exist. Even for the players that sit docked up in Jita, ect playing the market. Can literally lose their fortune in one bad deal. Eve is for those that want to dance on an edge of crumbling cliff. As the man once said, “If you’re gonna play the game, boy You gotta learn to play it right.” -The Gambler (Kenny Rogers) This is not directed at you Gloria, but at those who complain that either the game is dying or get mad when they get blown out of the sky. ---
**Author:** ![Aallin\_Gicquet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aallin_gicquet/32/510703_2.png) [@Aallin\_Gicquet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aallin_Gicquet)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/813 "2025-01-16T14:49:27Z")
As I said people need to complain about something… ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/814 "2025-01-16T14:52:09Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > I know I’m not alone in this. Seems ironic that the study only focused on one aspect, but failed to consider the opposite. That dangers of being ganked can, and does draw in potential players looking for the thrill of danger. I mean, it’s along the same vein of horror games. You are definitely not alone in that stance. And I mean…when’s the last time Kezrai sat outside Jita in range of half a dozen Tornados, waiting for smaller fry in the form of suspects ? Being both the hunter and the hunted is the most thrilling thing in Eve. But what would someone who sits in their docked up ivory tower, and shows no sign of having undocked since 2017, know about any of this ? ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/815 "2025-01-16T15:08:05Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > So you don’t think people constantly whining ‘Eve is dying’ on the forums has ANY effect on the potential noobs you pretend to care oh so much about ? It has close to zero effect, yes. It’s fairly well known that less than 5% of a playerbase reads the forums. And almost all of that is done _after_ they join and start playing, in order to answer some question or complain about something. Ask yourself this: when was the last time you saw a thread saying “Hey guys I am thinking of downloading EVE Online to play. What can you tell me about the game before I start?” Hell, even “Man the player base and game here is so toxic I’m quitting” posts are like, a couple a month. Statistically this is virtually nothing vs. the size of the turnover (around 10,000 players per week, according to CCP). Today’s players are _far_ more likely to look at overall game review scores on Steam or Metacritic. Which say “Mostly positive” and “6.9 out of 10”, respectively. Not exactly poison. > [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > All your hypocritical stance against ganking Really, siince you’re the person literally squatting in high sec p1ssing in the well with ganking and wardecs, which has been _proven_ and stated by CCP as greatly concerning and harmful to the game - calling me the hypocrite for sticking to the facts while you try to blame your harm on non-factors - that’s the biggest laugh I’ve had today. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/816 "2025-01-16T15:17:09Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > What about people like me, who joined because of the possibility of being ganked? Come up with some numbers on how many people ‘like you’ joined the game for that reason. Then we’ll talk. Otherwise all the proven facts stated by professional devs say that unrestricted PvP leads to a relatively small number of players driving a huge number of players out of the game. As already shown in the post linked above. It’s hilarious how many people want to deny the _published_ statements by high-end, professional developers while providing nothing of their own. Or by saying “Well **I** like those things so they must be good”. News flash: the game isn’t all about you. Not even if there’s 2,000 other people just like you. You’re a drop in the bucket, unless you can prove otherwise. Edit: > [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > Seems ironic that the study only focused on one aspect, but failed to consider the opposite. They don’t. “We took PvP out and playerbase doubled”. That’s a pretty clearly statement on the opposite effect. And feel free to check out all those games where they implemented separate PvP and PvE servers. The PvP servers are ghost towns compared to the PvE. Again, you require ultimate proof of exactly the issue, but have zero proof to support your own side. There’s a reason gankers and wardeccers have to lie, twist, ignore and misrepresent facts in order to make their case… it’s because they don’t have one. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/817 "2025-01-16T15:25:25Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > It has close to zero effect, yes. Oh don’t be silly. Everyone knows that reviews have an effect. And those sort of posts _are_ basically a review. A negative one. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > And almost all of that is done _after_ they join and start playing Well its odd how I’m demanded proof of what I say, yet you blurt out endless claims without ever feeling the need to provide one iota of evidence. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Ask yourself this: when was the last time you saw a thread saying “Hey guys I am thinking of downloading EVE Online to play. What can you tell me about the game before I start?” Actually there _was_ just such a post not that long ago. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Really, siince you’re the person literally squatting in high sec p1ssing in the well with ganking and wardecs, which has been _proven_ and stated by CCP as greatly concerning and harmful to the game Actually, a substantial portion of my 1400 kills ( 3 Trillion worth ) are in lowsec and null. Oh…and your ‘quotes’ from CCP getting in a tizzy are from 2018…you forgot to mention that bit. If it was such a vastly urgent issue…howcome CCP have done absolutely nothing about it for 7 years ? ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/818 "2025-01-16T15:33:46Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > It’s hilarious how many people want to deny the _published_ statements by high-end, professional developers while providing nothing of their own. It’s far more hilarious how you have to desperately search around for something, anything, so you can find a few quotable lines out of thousands…and even those are from a meeting _7 years ago_. You even include a quote from a CSM member saying wardecs should be stopped…yet that very same CSM member has been quite happily getting involved in wardecs in the 7 years since…lol. All I see from you is selection bias, from your little docked up ivory tower in which you pretend expertise in PvP despite having not done any in…oh look…its that 7 year figure again. ---
**Author:** ![Spring\_Sky](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/spring_sky/32/447439_2.png) [@Spring\_Sky](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Spring_Sky)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2025, 3:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/819 "2025-01-16T15:35:38Z")
Listen the people that it drives off are people that want to play games like Infinity Nikki where they brush racoons and make cutie outfits. Eve players demand crash and exotic dancers in there hulls screaming im terrible at this game in local. I’ll be honest if I didn’t have to watch my back or cut deals or play areas of grey then what’s the point? That’s what makes me come back, the danger of losing months of years of work on a bad gamble is real. It makes me nervous, no other game comes even close to making feel anxious when I blow through Uedema with a load of compressed dark glitter. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=32) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=34)