# What is Causing EVE to Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2024, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580 "2024-11-29T07:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/880 "2025-01-17T13:39:23Z")
No one is talking about coke. We are talking about a 4b ISK ship (fit and hull) vs a gang of 10m ISK catalysts (and one neutral bumper exploiter). It would not take 400 of those cats to take down the 4b ship so the loss is way higher for the defender. Who would ever think that coke would factor into that as a valid example? ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 1:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/881 "2025-01-17T13:40:18Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Is EvE dying? Er…let’s pull back the curtain and see the scary Dying Eve boogie man ![vV7K42](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/d/a/cda0a6c284deba285fd0ac9027e367fb2ecbb52b.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/882 "2025-01-17T13:44:14Z")
> [@Glenduil](#): > > No one is talking about coke. That’s odd. I am. I just did. And if you don’t understand comparative examples in economics then feel free to go take some course 101 in the subject rather than embarrass yourself. Your argument is on par with official figures using the metaphor of the ‘price of bread’…and some guy responding ’ I don’t buy bread…so inflation doesn’t affect me’. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/883 "2025-01-17T13:46:02Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > Except you always seem to ignore the fact that your PvE would be worthless without large amounts of destruction. Hell, we don’t even need PvE only players. Y’all are leeches. You inflate the currency and offer little to no real content in return. Sorry but you’re just being a deluded self-entitled whiney “give me easy kills in safe space!” ranter here. EVE’s economy is different than most MMOs because players have to build everything. But full PvE MMORPGs have their own economies, their own markets, their own exchanges, and those work just fine without PvP drivers. And high-sec PvP is like 10% or less of the destruction in EVE, so trying to paint it as “your PvE would be worthless without it” is ridiculous. And you apparently missed the whole CSM 13 where wardecs were proven by CCP to be a massive detriment to player retention. As opposed to being the steady stream of recruits you’re pretending high sec PvP to be. > [@Bladewise](#): > > Y’all are leeches. You inflate the currency and offer little to no real content in return. Actually PvE players drive and supply the entire economy and function of all aspects of EVE, not just the PvP. And the real ‘leeches’ here are the high sec PvPers who don’t have the balls to venture into spaces where they might themselves be at risk, ,and instead hang around driving people out of the game in the _starter area_. Seriously, high sec 'PvP’ers are the pathetic weasels who hang out in the newbie areas hiding in bushes to gank easy kills because it makes them feel like real bad dudes. Looking for the safest loot they can get without being productive themselves. That’s the **definition** of leech, you leech. All kinds of kills and destruction and looting are still happening in high sec. Stop crying for CCP to make it easy for you and git gud. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/884 "2025-01-17T14:06:09Z")
No wonder your posts are so long and full of waffle. They contain absolutely _endless_ examples of you asserting stuff as if it were a given. I see what you did there…you hide all manner of unproven _statements_ in amongst the waffle…and hope that nobody will question ’ Is this actually true ?’ … 1. ‘This was obvious from the day scarcity was announced’… 2. ‘It’s not like huge battles result in any massive gains.’… 3. ‘EVE is far more about economics than it is about PvP battles.’ 4. ‘EVE actually has very few drivers for conflict’ 5. 'People only PvP when they both profit from it ’ 6. ‘EVE PvP causes losses, people avoid loss unless their chance of gain outweighs it.’ 7. 'In general, PvP-fit ships are not in themselves a target of value ’ 8. ‘But those players are vastly in the minority.’ 9. ‘they’re directly harmful to the game overall’ Every single one of these things is **your personal opinion** being stated as if it were something Moses brought down from the mountain. You create large waffly posts in the hope that nobody will notice that. ---
**Author:** ![Distaine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/distaine/32/502653_2.png) [@Distaine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Distaine)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/885 "2025-01-17T14:20:13Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > The only way this game will ever “un-die” is if CCP makes massive revisions to the PvP systems in ways that FAVOR PvPers. IE: Un-Nerf Ganking, War-decs, and Suspects. Smart man. The carebear cancer is all that will be left playing on a mostly dead server. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/886 "2025-01-17T14:21:04Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > I don’t buy bread…so inflation doesn’t affect me No one is talking about bread… no one but you. Do you need help shopping? Need me to send you coke and bread? ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/887 "2025-01-17T14:24:23Z")
> [@Distaine](#): > > Smart man. The carebear cancer is all that will be left playing on a mostly dead server. When CCP removes all of the things that give gankers the advantage, you’ll get more fighting. Ganking is done by carebears because of all the advantages they have. They fly trash ships and take down expensive targets. They use a neutral bumping ship after getting neutral Logi ships removed. Gankers are the carebears. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/888 "2025-01-17T14:24:34Z")
Did someone tear the page with the word ‘analogy’ out of your dictionary ? ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/889 "2025-01-17T14:25:02Z")
No, but they took “comprehension” out of yours. ---
**Author:** ![Distaine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/distaine/32/502653_2.png) [@Distaine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Distaine)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/890 "2025-01-17T14:26:45Z")
The only reason the carebears have so much to say about ganking is because the only free form of PvP left in highsec that they have not already destroyed. Its all they have left. PvP and fair competition along with the ability to access it is what will fix highsec. Listening to the players with the most experience would be a nice start. Experienced leaders in their fields should be the only voice that matters. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/891 "2025-01-17T14:28:04Z")
> [@Distaine](#): > > The only reason the carebears have so much to say about ganking is because the only free form of PvP left in highsec that they have not already destroyed. Its all they have left, How is that free form PvP? There’s nothing free form about it. They need to bring back neutral Logi ships. ---
**Author:** ![Distaine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/distaine/32/502653_2.png) [@Distaine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Distaine)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/892 "2025-01-17T14:29:40Z")
How many years of experience do you have being a leader in highsec? This forum is mostly trash due the same small group of fools who have nothing better to do than argue foolish points of view. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/893 "2025-01-17T14:29:59Z")
> [@Glenduil](#): > > Gankers are the carebears. Show me on the doll where the nasty ganker hurt you. Oh, wait, they didn’t. I mean, you’re the same guy who BRAGS that their mining ship has 250K EHP and you are all but ungankable. Yet somehow it’s everyone else who is the carebear…lol. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/894 "2025-01-17T14:32:32Z")
> [@Distaine](#): > > How many years of experience do you have being a leader in highsec? 3,050. Doesn’t matter. If you really think it takes years to learn about high sec PvP, then you may need some help. You’re using a tired old argument used by anyone who is afraid of a discussion. “If you have’t played for 10 years then you don’t know anything about this game!” Trust me- this game does NOT take 10 years to learn! I’ve played more complex games than this. I’ve learned more complex systems than this game. Please find a new argument or actually engage in the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Distaine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/distaine/32/502653_2.png) [@Distaine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Distaine)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/895 "2025-01-17T14:32:34Z")
Gankers are the carebears? See what I mean? Fools say foolish things. Glen, you dont comprehend what im even saying. You are delusional. I also didnt say the things you just said that I did plus I dont agree with it. ---
**Author:** ![Ivan\_Grzonka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ivan_grzonka/32/484990_2.png) [@Ivan\_Grzonka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ivan_Grzonka)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/896 "2025-01-17T14:34:06Z")
Carebears by mechanics - highsec is bat country, man ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/897 "2025-01-17T14:34:10Z")
> [@Distaine](#): > > Gankers are the carebears? See what I mean? Fools say foolish things. Look up there- scroll up a bit- there’s a whole section of this discussion about how gankers were so relieved when they removed the ability to have a logi ship join the battle while staying neutral and there aren’t any of them wanting to discuss the neutral bumping ship. Just personal attacks against anyone who brings it up. Trolls and carebears. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/898 "2025-01-17T14:34:20Z")
You have to excuse Glenduil…he’s still at that bombastic newbie knee jerk level that covers up not having the faintest idea what he’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/899 "2025-01-17T14:34:53Z")
LOL! 😄 : [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=36) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=38)