# What is Causing EVE to Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2024, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580 "2024-11-29T07:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1031 "2025-01-20T18:29:43Z")
Yes I know they’re open to the public. I have some of my own only I didn’t have to use a holding company for them. This game isn’t that hard. If all structures (including NPC structures can be destroyed without using War Dec, then they will all be destroyed. Including poor little Zaera’s. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1032 "2025-01-20T18:34:35Z")
> [@Glenduil](#): > > Including poor little Zaera’s Nobody gonna destroy Zaera’s , you know why? She doesn’t have one you **clown**. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1033 "2025-01-20T18:36:38Z")
I know. SAFETY doesn’t own structures 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1034 "2025-01-20T18:54:29Z")
hmmm, if every station was destructible… I would give it 2 wks to kill them all… and i would give it 3wks after that the game would be dead…and a month at most after that the plug to the server would be pulled. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1035 "2025-01-20T19:02:46Z")
So why have all the player owned structures in high sec not been destroyed? ---
**Author:** ![Chewytowel\_Haklar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chewytowel_haklar/32/420292_2.png) [@Chewytowel\_Haklar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chewytowel_Haklar)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 7:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1036 "2025-01-20T19:12:07Z")
I guess high sec is keeping EVE Online alive all this time Or is it? Hmmm ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1037 "2025-01-20T21:21:42Z")
are you asking in reply to my statment… Im not talking about player structures, im talking about the NPC stations… one they go it wont take long for the player market to evaporate… and 90% of the player base to be unable to reprocess stuff for minerals or anything else… or do research or do invention or do a lot of stuff…let get any more faction items or implants from the LP stores… ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1038 "2025-01-20T21:48:04Z")
Other than LP stores, you can do the rest at player stations, and do it cheaper and faster. ---
**Author:** ![Eloken\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eloken_toralen/32/401714_2.png) [@Eloken\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eloken_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 10:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1039 "2025-01-20T22:43:32Z")
Ok, fair call, I can see how the original comment could have been construed and apologize. To the matter at hand. The death of EVE is not being caused by any one thing, though there are plenty of smaller items when aggregated together are compounding and significant. There is a painful history of changes that are obviously dumb in hindsight, yet they had to be suffered through. Arguably a significant number of negative changes, and most if not all of changes later reversed were vocally touted by the PvP die hards ( such as blackout ) seeking to alter rules to create a ‘target rich’ environment tailored to their own playstyle. With this history in mind, giving authority to ideas purely based on the PvP ability as indicated by zkill, has not resulted in a more heathy game environment and some caution, if not downright skeptisim is warranted. Arguing to make the “High Security” part of the game less safe seems a very inefficient means to get more ‘content’ or ‘desruction’ when simple changes to Low and Null ( like WCS in FW ) to reduce the impact of certain metas ( that discourage meaninful participation ) are far more effective at changing long accepted PvP dynamics. ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chad_frostpacker/32/504356_2.png) [@Chad\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chad_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2025, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1045 "2025-01-20T23:54:16Z")
@Uriel_the_Flame So around 20 minutes ago Frosty ended Jita Local It was well alive with asci artwork and various comments from the locals there. Soon afterwards frosty typed a few mind boggling phases and had halted Jita local and it continues to remain full but empty of conversation. Frosty could had caused such with wordsalad. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 12:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1046 "2025-01-21T00:04:30Z")
and when there are no player station??? what then? ---
**Author:** ![Eloken\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eloken_toralen/32/401714_2.png) [@Eloken\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eloken_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 12:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1047 "2025-01-21T00:46:38Z")
I would caveat this with an “outside of the major trade hubs” as the index charge for industry in those locations is extortionate to the point any kind of profit margin is reduced to zero, if not negative. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 1:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1048 "2025-01-21T01:48:10Z")
> [@Glenduil](#): > > I know. SAFETY doesn’t own structures I’m pretty sure they used to…in Uedama, not far from the Sivala gate. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1049 "2025-01-21T03:01:57Z")
I would ask some of the forum members to remind the newer players why the changes were necessary and why the numbers dropped. I can’t explain it in detail enough myself. It would maybe help them understand better? ---
**Author:** ![Ivan\_Grzonka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ivan_grzonka/32/484990_2.png) [@Ivan\_Grzonka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ivan_Grzonka)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 7:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1050 "2025-01-21T07:49:16Z")
oh…i would like to know too… and im not alone ! ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 10:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1051 "2025-01-21T10:19:09Z")
Somebody has been on a flagging spree it seems ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 1:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1052 "2025-01-21T13:28:18Z")
> [@Eloken\_Toralen](#): > > With this history in mind, giving authority to ideas purely based on the PvP ability as indicated by zkill, has not resulted in a more heathy game environment and some caution, if not downright skeptisim is warranted. This is a key issue in the challenges EVE faces in keeping members. High-sec cowards grabbing cheap and easy kills with no risk constantly try to push the discussion towards “If you don’t PvP (but they really mean ‘gank’) your opinion is invalid”, “EVE is all about the PvP”, “high sec kills are vital to the economy”, and “without easy high sec PvP your PvE would be worth nothing”. All false, all proven wrong many times. Still, since this sort of weak, cowardly PvP fills a deep need for these players, which other games have either banned, re-written around, or simply died because they didn’t limit it enough… it’s not hard to see why they try so hard to exclude anyone but other gankers from the discussion. EVE has succeeded to the extent it has, _not_ due to the ability to gank (or wardec, which is just legalized ganking), but due to the _restrictions_ both the rules and the game design/layout have imposed on it. And a large part of it’s failure (in player losses) have come because CCP didn’t restrict it enough or simply doesn’t even understand it’s impact on the game. (Wardecs are an excellent example of that.) EVE can and should be harsh and challenging. But there’s a huge difference between ‘harsh’ and “we demand thousands of players to be ‘fish in a barrel’ for us every week so the 2% of us who _need_ ganking to get our jollies have ‘content’”. An aside on content: **everything in the game is content**. It’s only self-absorbed gankers who define ‘content’ to be “scoring easy kills in safe space where nobody bothers us”. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1053 "2025-01-21T13:32:13Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > I would ask some of the forum members to remind the newer players why the changes were necessary and why the numbers dropped. With all the flagging, can’t tell what needed to be explained better. ---
**Author:** ![Chewytowel\_Haklar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chewytowel_haklar/32/420292_2.png) [@Chewytowel\_Haklar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chewytowel_Haklar)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1054 "2025-01-21T14:46:38Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > “EVE is all about the PvP”, “high sec kills are vital to the economy”, and “without easy high sec PvP your PvE would be worth nothing”. > > All false, all proven wrong many times. Look if the devs want to make High Sec super safe for all and banish pvp from happening somehow in these safe spaces then fine. However, the design intent of the game as a sandbox that allows for pvp content to emerge as players see fit within purviews of the rules the game laid out isn’t bad. If the issue is most people play in high sec and they’re leaving cause all they want to do is rat in safety and mine then perhaps the game gave them the wrong impression. Out with the old and in with the new. This game lives or dies not based on the pve content but the content created by the players and their willingness to take part in it. The pve is a mere vehicle for pvp content. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2025, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1055 "2025-01-21T15:08:07Z")
> [@Chewytowel\_Haklar](#): > > Look if the devs want to make High Sec super safe for all and banish pvp from happening somehow I’d be happy if they would do away with bumping as a PvP tactic. I mean… why can’t gankers just invest in a warp scram? Gankers need to get a job so they can afford real PvP ships! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=42) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=44)