# What is Causing EVE to Die? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2024, 7:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580 "2024-11-29T07:27:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Cam\_Clarke](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cam_clarke/32/403045_2.png) [@Cam\_Clarke](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cam_Clarke)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1076 "2025-01-23T08:02:29Z")
Agreed, as someone who was very nearly a victim of CODE when I was transferring some stuff out of Jita via Orca. No respect given for oldheads like me, sheesh. I flew with a bit too much interesting stuff in the holds, and caught too much attention while doing MWD single cycles off gate, no cloak. There is counterplay in all situations, you just need to pay some attention as opposed to running 20 mission runner bots. ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1078 "2025-01-23T11:14:24Z")
But yea, it’s exactly what’s happening here. It’s happening to Albion Online too. Investment company buys the game then they change all the rules to pander to PvE players so they can milk them for easy money. Knowing full well it will kill the game in the long run. They’ll have made their investment back by then though so they don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1079 "2025-01-23T11:24:18Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > Because your reading comprehension and EVE understanding leaves quite a bit to be desired. You do seem quite fond of ad hominem attacks. Did you know that you use them as a tactic to avoid directly addressing other’s arguments by instead attacking their character, motives, or personal attributes, essentially attempting to discredit their viewpoint without engaging with the substance of their reasoning; a diversionary strategy to shift focus away from the actual issue at hand and used by you when you lack strong counterarguments to their viewpoint? Conclusion : **You blowing hot air** ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1080 "2025-01-23T12:45:13Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > Conclusion : **You blowing hot air** _Actual_ conclusion: you need an AI to write a post that contains more than an insult or a meme. If someone consistently gets the meaning of a sentence wrong, consistently makes math errors, consistently gets EVE fundamentals wrong (like not knowing the difference between their **corp** and the **alliance** their corp is in), then yes I’ll point out that they’re either lacking in comprehension, failing to read properly, or making errors out of ignorance. It’s an ad hominem to make a personal attack _in lieu of_ an argument or rebuttal. Since I make quite thorough arguments and rebuttals, and detail what the error or flaw the person is making actually is, that’s called “pointing out the flaw in your argument”. Pretending ignorance isn’t there doesn’t make the ignorance a valid argument. And honestly, ganker apologists being so ‘woke’ and concerned because someone else’s _reading comprehension_ is being questioned, with examples to prove the case? Give it a rest. Read your own posts. > [@The Like and Get Likes Thread IV](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/the-like-and-get-likes-thread-iv/465437/99): > > Not any smarter though. I assume you into wordsalad spewing misogynists then. You wanting to be his next scrumpet, is that why you wear yellow? That’s ad hominem. Learn your references before you get an AI to write them for you. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1081 "2025-01-23T12:57:05Z")
![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/b/a/5ba4bd2dd02a302cd29b2d9c13e20f144c7db04b.gif) > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > get an AI to write them for you Zaera does not need AI as her IQ is **131** ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 1:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1082 "2025-01-23T13:13:59Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > it’s exactly what’s happening here. It’s happening to Albion Online too. Investment company buys the game then they change all the rules to pander to PvE players so they can milk them for easy money. They do not pander to PvE. Reprocessing has gotten nerfed into the ground. Scrap metal processing requires Metalurgy 5 and then Scrap Metal 5 and still doesnt pay out. It used to pay a lot! They nerfed the loot but kept the high skill requirement. Months of skill training for nothing. Security missions barely pay above the cost of doing them even with good salvaging skills. If you lose more than one T2 drone forget making a profit. You spend a billion or more on the hull and fit of a combat ship and make a couple million ISK profit. It’s not worth it. Mining in null sec sucks because all of the good rocks are tiny which means very low loot. It doesn’t pay the bills. High sec mining is not worth doing unless you’re also doing industry and really need the tritanium. At least ice mining is still fairly decent. PI takes two months to train up, but pays out very little in my opinion. It’s passive though so that helps. I dont know why you think they’re giving PvE everything because they’re not. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1083 "2025-01-23T13:19:14Z")
> [@Glenduil](#): > > High sec mining is not worth doing Not with Frostpackers pinching your ore ![happy 3](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/d/d/edd9f9a225728a4125d6238a3bf6b713cec03999.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1084 "2025-01-23T13:21:08Z")
All of these nerfs had to happen (trust me, if they could’ve avoided them they would have). You cannot continually make space safer and safer without also reducing rewards in said space. If CCP were to make HS completely safe (it’s already almost there) you would see the rewards nerfed to the GROUND. This is how Albion Online is (basically the same game as eve just a different setting). They have a %100 safe blue zone that is completely unviable for progressing your character and your wallet. The rewards are something like 1/10000 of what they are in the full loot pvp zones. So yea, if you want better rewards you’re going to have to accept more risk and if you’re smart, you’ll stop crying for less risk because it’s only going to lead to more nerfs FOR EVERYONE. All that said, we need some heavy handed buffs to HS PvP play. This game has way too many industrialists. It will slowly drive the game into the ground one way or another without some changes to favor PvP players. But yes, they absolutely do pander to PvE players. If I went through the list of HS PvP nerfs over the last 10 years it would be a 10 page essay. Yall just don’t know what you’re truly asking for when you clamor for more safety. It nerfs the entire game and has slowly killed Eve. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1085 "2025-01-23T13:34:33Z")
When did that happen? Ohh when I threw it all away into jet cans and let him. You do know that he returned it right? Even though I let him have it, he still returned it ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1086 "2025-01-23T13:36:23Z")
Space is not safer. What gave you that idea? Are you mad that a single catalyst can’t take down an Orca? I played over a decade ago (just recently returned) and high sec is just as dangerous as it has always been. You should really stop crying about high sec. You’d see fewer industry players if they’d increase security loot. Oh and that affects null more than high. The nerfs wrre not just high ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1087 "2025-01-23T13:51:52Z")
> [@Glenduil](#): > > Even though I let him have it, he still returned it It was not his ore to return, all ore in highsec belongs to the princess **thief**. By aiding and abetting a criminal, the Frostpackers are fined **1 billion ISK** ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1088 "2025-01-23T13:59:58Z")
> [@Zaera\_Keena](#): > > It was not his ore to return, all ore in highsec belongs to the princess **thief**. > > By aiding and abetting a criminal, the Frostpackers are fined **1 billion ISK** It’s a losing proposition, but one you can’t refuse. It’s politics of contraband; it’s the Smuggler’s Blues. [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/6/1/361b7cdcd0ac2a9070e65d7d7aa1fe088ec5c2ba.jpeg "Glenn Frey - Smugglers Blues Lyrics") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnU06ZDNgQ4) ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1089 "2025-01-23T14:06:11Z")
![clown wanted](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/b/8/6b81e3427c88b88ecdea22e33c74a21477a2bacf.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 2:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1090 "2025-01-23T14:07:35Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > (like not knowing the difference between their **corp** and the **alliance** their corp is in Lol…that was ALL you had to focus on, and it was utterly irrelevant to the point being made. That is the logical fallacy of downright evasion that can be added to ad hominem as well. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > It’s an ad hominem to make a personal attack _in lieu of_ an argument or rebuttal. Which is precisely what you did, as at no time did you _ever_ respond to the fact that most of those ‘58,000 kills’ for Wrecking Machine or the ‘738,000 unhappy targets’ in general were NOT in highsec or even gank or bashing fleets. Neither did you _ever_ respond to the fact that most of the ‘385 members’ don’t actually take part in such activity but are simply in corps _associated_ with the alliance. Thus your ‘data’ was _quite patently misleading_…especially as you used the large ‘738,000 unhappy people’ to bolster your point yet the 738,000 number _simply isn’t true_ in respect of that argument ! So I can see precisely why you chose to latch on to some irrelevant error and focus entirely on that to the exclusion of all else. Thus toay’s lesson in logical fallacies is… > **[Straw man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man)** > > A straw man fallacy (sometimes written as strawman) is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man". > The typical straw man argument creates the illusion of having refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition through the covert replacement of it with a different proposition (i.e., "stand up a straw man") and the subsequ... ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 2:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1091 "2025-01-23T14:11:15Z")
Zero ISK? Haha! So I needn’t worry. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1092 "2025-01-23T14:26:18Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > So yea, if you want better rewards you’re going to have to accept more risk and if you’re smart, you’ll stop crying for less risk because it’s only going to lead to more nerfs FOR EVERYONE. But the people whining about risk simply don’t grasp that. Without risk in highsec there’d be massive fleets of totally AFK miners and haulers ( not that it isn’t already headed that way ) sucking up everything and not only leaving nothing for Joe Miner but drastically reducing ore prices to the point where it would be even less worth Joe Miner even undocking. The same is true of moon mining stations, engineering, etc, etc. Reducing risk increases available materials and thus reduces demand and price for Joe Miner and Joe Industrialist’s stuff. All the more so as less risk also means less destruction and thus less demand in the first place. Its a vicious downward spiral. Those who want to drastically reduce or eliminate PvP from highsec are NOT helping their claimed constituency. They are doing the complete reverse. And most of their constituency are too dumb to grasp that. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1093 "2025-01-23T14:30:09Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > They are doing the complete reverse. And most of their constituency are too dumb to grasp that. A bit like the land of the free. ---
**Author:** ![Glenduil](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/glenduil/32/501812_2.png) [@Glenduil](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Glenduil)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1094 "2025-01-23T14:30:41Z")
> [@Gloria\_Exercitus](#): > > But the people whining about risk simply don’t grasp that. Without risk in highsec there’d be massive fleets of totally AFK miners and haulers ( not that it isn’t already headed that way ) sucking up everything and not only leaving nothing for Joe Miner but drastically reducing ore prices to the point where it would be even less worth Joe Miner even undocking. There are people who AFK mine and Haul. Fleets. Even the streamers do it. So… why aren’t you stopping them? ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1095 "2025-01-23T14:32:13Z")
You ask too much of a little fish in a big sea. ---
**Author:** ![Gloria\_Exercitus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gloria_exercitus/32/509735_2.png) [@Gloria\_Exercitus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gloria_Exercitus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2025, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580/1096 "2025-01-23T14:43:29Z")
> [@Glenduil](#): > > So… why aren’t you stopping them? Well that’s ironic…as that’s precisely what I _have_ been doing with some of the station bashing and other fleets. Or do you really suppose that not one of those stations is ever involved in AFK sucking up of moons, AFK fleets of miners, etc. I know full well that they have been…as I’ve been a spy on just such a corp. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=44) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-causing-eve-to-die/469580.md?page=46)