# What is EVE Online's main product? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 17, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793 "2019-03-17T17:15:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nobuyuki_tanaka/32/125208_2.png) [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nobuyuki_Tanaka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/45 "2019-03-17T20:30:10Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > There are ways to make money even if you are offline… I’m aware of PI, and botting. I’m not interested. I’m not interested in working around CCP’s idea that games should cost so much. I completely understand how it works for them to make the penalty as oppressive as possible. The side effect is me and people like me. The core playerbase is all that’s really left, aside from bots. You need to make the impact on players with less than 60m+ sp and an alliance and industrial base with sov, a bit less. Sure, you core players, and botters, can churn out fancy ships to play in all day, while you sit there on these forums and rail about alphas having access to anything. No lvl5, no cloaks, no T2 weapons. We want you here, but we don’t want to feel threatened. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/46 "2019-03-17T20:36:27Z")
You feel oppressed because some vets have fond ways to use the game mechanics and make money with? ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/47 "2019-03-17T20:37:43Z")
> [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](#): > > How much intellect does it take to grind? You shoot a laser at some rocks. You haul it, you sell it, for great prices. You have a mining alt, a hauling alt, maybe a maketing alt. You skilled them all differently, doing their tasks. None of it was all that intellectual. > > You made a lot of isk, because you grinded away the time. Not because of intellect. From a certain perspective, I’d be entitled to call you an idiot, for settling for this. I’m kinda curious how you think this compares to any other game. Like, almost all of them are time wasting diversions, designed to “sell” illusions and feelings rather than interesting gameplay. At least in Eve you are competing with other humans for power and resources, imaginary they may be. It’s true, Eve has been nerfed to the point that almost any shlub can earn some sense of progression with mindless grinding, but it is also true that those window-licking button pushers aren’t the ones pulling the strings behind the scenes and making the things that matter happen in New Eden. That is still the province of the elite and out of reach to the mindless grinders. Good for you, finally realizing the nature of the Skinner Box you were in. But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a real game going on around you that you are only beginning to become aware of. You have taken the first step of getting off the treadmill, but the real question is whether you want to continue down the rabbit hole, or take your ball and go home now. Meaningless and inconsequential fights are not interesting, at least long term, and it is a shame that CCP has spend so much time trying to sell that aspect of the game. Recognizing that is more than most do and is to your credit - most just get bored and quit without realizing why. While recognizing that most of the chest-thumping that goes on is just theater without purpose is a good first step, you also need to look deep what else is possible in this game. Maybe what is there doesn’t interest you and this is goodbye, but that doesn’t mean there is more to this sandbox game there if you want it. Regardless, good luck to you whatever you choose to do. P.S. [https://fiction.eveonline.com/new-eden/lore/fedo](https://fiction.eveonline.com/new-eden/lore/fedo) ---
**Author:** ![Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bjorn_tyrson/32/371958_2.png) [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bjorn_Tyrson)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/48 "2019-03-17T20:41:51Z")
CCP is selling you access to a sandbox, with a set of tools and rules that you can use. everything from there is up to you. ---
**Author:** ![Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nobuyuki_tanaka/32/125208_2.png) [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nobuyuki_Tanaka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/49 "2019-03-17T20:41:59Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > You feel oppressed because some vets have fond ways to use the game mechanics and make money with? This game has been around long enough, yeah. Vets with sov and industrial bases and connections and alliances, have a huge advantage. They should, in some aspects. But it’s too large. They can bring to bear against other players, the very best, and the loss, to them, is nothing, sitting on balances of hundreds of billions of isk from passive and other income. To a newer/smaller player, a billion isk to play their ‘hockey’ game, is an accomplishment. When we fight in a battle, online, and I lose, literally, months of work, because I’m not a vet, and don’t have all that diversified power and income, you can, and will, bring the best, to every fight. It’s nothing to you. To get a real fight, you have to make it less to me, too. Which is why I want to see insurance changed. If I only lost 25% I’d not have to run, every single time. But as it is, now, I do. Even with an equal ship, because you can buy a hundred of them. You risk them easier. Time in game, age, money, gives you an edge. Too large an edge. ---
**Author:** ![Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nobuyuki_tanaka/32/125208_2.png) [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nobuyuki_Tanaka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/50 "2019-03-17T20:44:06Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > I’m kinda curious how you think this compares to any other game. Like, almost all of them are time wasting diversions, designed to “sell” illusions and feelings rather than interesting gameplay. Do I lose my hard earned gear in any other game? None that I play. You lose a ‘battle,’ not your gear. Why should I bother to skill up and train for stuff that I’m gonna lose to a chain-gang gank? That’s one area where alphas have it good. We can’t use the good stuff, so we don’t buy it. Neither are we competitive. I wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/51 "2019-03-17T20:48:09Z")
We, vets, have been there too, and we have worked to fill the gap. You don’t want to, that’s your problem, not ours. ---
**Author:** ![Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nobuyuki_tanaka/32/125208_2.png) [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nobuyuki_Tanaka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/52 "2019-03-17T20:49:21Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > P.S. [https://fiction.eveonline.com/new-eden/lore/fedo](https://fiction.eveonline.com/new-eden/lore/fedo) That… I’m honestly not sure what the image of a human being suffering has to do with this imaginary fedo creature. I understand the real life insult behind it, and I choose to ignore it, but that, also, yeah, smacks of elitism, a mindset secure in it’s own hubris and presumption of superiority. Sick. ---
**Author:** ![Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nobuyuki_tanaka/32/125208_2.png) [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nobuyuki_Tanaka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/53 "2019-03-17T20:51:17Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > We, vets, have been there too, and we have worked to fill the gap. You don’t want to, that’s your problem, not ours. It’s a form of generational wealth, basically. If you already have all the power, and sit at the top of the hill, you can shove everyone else down, because no leveling of the playing field takes place. Yes, you got there first, and you built a high wall. Does that mean you are better, or just older? This is why most MMO’s today limit the power of age, drastically. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/54 "2019-03-17T20:54:32Z")
I have worked my ass off to gain consideration from my elders, and their position once they are gone. Do you deserve what you have ? Do you deserve your food? ---
**Author:** ![Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nobuyuki_tanaka/32/125208_2.png) [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nobuyuki_Tanaka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/55 "2019-03-17T20:57:45Z")
This is getting into too much rl and too much ‘connotation,’ in the phrasing. I know your view @Mevatla_Vekraspek. Your game view does not surprise me, given that. Don’t take it the wrong way, but I think I’m done with you. I’ll argue others’ points, but I’m not encouraging you to continue. You would do well to relocate yourself to a solitary place and reconsider your life. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/56 "2019-03-17T20:58:09Z")
> [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](#): > > Do I lose my hard earned gear in any other game? None that I play. You lose a ‘battle,’ not your gear. Why should I bother to skill up and train for stuff that I’m gonna lose to a chain-gang gank? That’s one area where alphas have it good. We can’t use the good stuff, so we don’t buy it. > > Neither are we competitive. I wonder why. Perhaps I am wrong and you haven’t quite grasped what the game is here. The fact that “gear” has value is what makes this game interesting. Loss is interesting as is the meaning it gives to gathering and bulding. The ‘battle’ is not the important point - it is achieving your goals in the greater sandbox universe that is the interesting bit here. Alphas aren’t competitive because someone has to pay the bills - that’s it. They can interact in a very minimal way with the game universe, but to actually compete, both in PvP and especially industry, you need to pay CCP some cash, or get someone to pay them cash for you via PLEX. If you are just complaining about Alphas not being competitive, save your breath. If you want to engage in some of Eve’s lackluster PvE or perhaps connect socially with a group then being an Alpha is fine, or maybe even as a trial to dip you toes in the game, or bootstrap your way to grinding for Omega status, but otherwise it is far too gimped to play the real game. Ok, a few niche playstyles might make it work, but even those would benefit more from Alpha being just a temporary stepping stone to Omega. If this thread only exists because you feel hard done-by because of the Alpha clone system, then just go Omega. The game is much more enjoyable on all levels. If you are complaining that existing large, established groups are more powerful than you, well, that is the reality of a persistent competitive sandbox game like Eve. Even when you are established, there are going to be people bigger, richer, with more time, or just better at the game than you. That’s the game - your past actions, accumulated power and friends will decide more fights than your immediate tactical decisions. Too bad, I though this thread was going more interesting places. ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/57 "2019-03-17T20:58:42Z")
> [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](#): > > I understand the real life insult behind it… No you don’t, because he was not insulting you. You’re just itching to be offended, intentionally mixing up RL and EvE. ---
**Author:** ![Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nobuyuki_tanaka/32/125208_2.png) [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nobuyuki_Tanaka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/58 "2019-03-17T20:59:16Z")
> [@Xuxe\_Xu](#): > > No you don’t, because he was not insulting you. > You’re just itching to be offended, intentionally mixing up RL and EvE. Fine. Then let’s drop it and keep on topic? ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/59 "2019-03-17T21:01:08Z")
> [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](#): > > reconsider Damn, what’s that? I’am, period. ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Darine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rich_darine/32/438327_2.png) [@Rich\_Darine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rich_Darine)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/60 "2019-03-17T21:05:10Z")
Eve’s product? I can wait 33d for this skillplan or pay for the $39.99 PLEX pack and have my plan done now ---
**Author:** ![Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nobuyuki_tanaka/32/125208_2.png) [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nobuyuki_Tanaka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/61 "2019-03-17T21:06:18Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Too bad, I though this thread was going more interesting places. Me, too. I asked a question. As is typical when interaction occurs, the discussion moves. I shared some of my concerns with the mechanics, and how alphas are maligned. Big deal. I still don’t see much that the game provides other than ego, looking at numbers grow, for many of you. I have more isk. I have more kills. I have all the skins. Ego. Let me put it this way, most games, sell me content. I get gear and levels to gain access to new content. Be that levels, dungeons, etc, etc, content. With eve, the ‘content’ from that perspective is better ships and gear. Which I can’t use, unless I subscribe, totally, to eve’s isk-based underlying paradigm. They have insurance, so I know they get the idea. They just don’t have very good insurance. If you’re not flying T1 garbage, insurance is worthless. They clearly know what they are doing. And so do you vets. I don’t want to make isk. I don’t want to play the economy. I don’t want to rule. It’s a game. I just want to roam around and get a few good fights that are sorta fair, and fun. Not a 16 man vet gate camp against my one ship. Fine, it happens, but I’d like when it does, to not be completely back to square one. Why is that so hard to grasp? ---
**Author:** ![DrysonBennington](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drysonbennington/32/501369_2.png) [@DrysonBennington](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DrysonBennington)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/62 "2019-03-17T21:07:48Z")
Main product? Death of your ship. ---
**Author:** ![Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mevatla_vekraspek/32/377519_2.png) [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mevatla_Vekraspek)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/63 "2019-03-17T21:10:12Z")
Eve is life, you can’t have it all without effort. Is it too hard to understand ? ---
**Author:** ![Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nobuyuki_tanaka/32/125208_2.png) [@Nobuyuki\_Tanaka](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nobuyuki_Tanaka)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793/64 "2019-03-17T21:16:04Z")
> [@Mevatla\_Vekraspek](#): > > Eve is life, you can’t have it all without effort. Is it too hard to understand ? Yes. It is. Eve is NOT life. Eve is a game. That’s exactly the problem with a lot of you vets. This is your only life, how you define yourselves? You said it, not me. Eve is your life. Like some of your other views, this borders on the maniacal. How much money and time have you dumped into this, how far down the rabbit hole did you go, that this means that much to you? It’s not life. It’s not even important. It’s a diversion, for fun. Nothing more. And it should be treated as such. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/what-is-eve-onlines-main-product/146793.md?page=4)